Perhaps I've got a scammer also

[MartinUK]

I'm not into writing to numerous ladies at the same time however having been 'trying' for 5 years I have learnt that one needs to have one on the substitutes bench.
One such substitute I started writing with a week or so ago, OK she claims not to speak English so I can understand canned letters but I purposely ask a couple of questions in each of early letters to test the 'canning' procedure. Of some 6 questions asked she has answered one but that was to drop a hint that she would need money to learn English.
Anyway,, yesterday her 3rd letter arrived, didn't answer a single question, devoured her seriousness for me,, suddenly suggested we arrange a meeting and wanted (in her words) to slightly surprise me and sent me a suggestive photo of herself in her underwear.
My reply to her has been a respectful one,, thanking her for her photograph, promising (as she asked) that nobody else will see my future wife (my words) in her underwear and agreeing we should start to discuss a future meeting.
I had hoped to receive a response today but I haven't however bearing in mind the suggestion of a meeting and the suggestive pic as early as the 3rd letter I'm expecting (kinda hoping) that the next letter(s) will be the 'I come to you, you send me money for visa & ticket etc.'.
I would have hoped she were/is serious, she is an attractive lady and a not too disimilar age to myself but like I say I'm expecting the attempted 'hit' very soon.
I'll keep you posted!

[MartinUK]

Well she came back to me yesterday afternoon. Has taken me a little by surprise because she didn't go for the visa & ticket scam.
Instead, she is asking me for money for her correspondence and translation charges however she's not having these letters translated, they are so obviously canned thus already written and stored on a computer.
I have sent her my naive reply, agreeing to assist with her expenses, asking how much she needs but saying I do not know how I can send money but I will talk to my bank and asking her if she has a bank account.
Now, she has 2 choices,, she can give me her bank details or she can introduce me to Western Union and hopefully I will collate the missing information such as her full name and perhaps her address to expose and blacklist her, I don't have these at the moment but hope to have them soon.

[Nataliya]

Well she came back to me yesterday afternoon. Has taken me a little by surprise because she didn't go for the visa & ticket scam.
Instead, she is asking me for money for her correspondence and translation charges however she's not having these letters translated, they are so obviously canned thus already written and stored on a computer.
I have sent her my naive reply, agreeing to assist with her expenses, asking how much she needs but saying I do not know how I can send money but I will talk to my bank and asking her if she has a bank account.
Now, she has 2 choices,, she can give me her bank details or she can introduce me to Western Union and hopefully I will collate the missing information such as her full name and perhaps her address to expose and blacklist her, I don't have these at the moment but hope to have them soon.
Dear guys,

What correspondence and translation charges?!! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I wouldn't be so sure that kind of service even exists.

[Vicky]

Translation charges is quite ok, she might give her letters written in russian to someone to have them translated.

correspondence charges.. well, if she doesn't have i-net at home, she'll have to use delivery services, like going to the post-office, and even to pay for her own i-net if she has it.

[MartinUK]

Hi Vicky,
She tells me she uses internet cafe and she uses a person to translate. Now, unless this translation person is actually in the internet cafe quite how these translated letters make their way from the translator to the cafe is something of a mystery!!!
I see the only way this would be possible is if the translator puts them onto a disc from one computer for her to take to the cafe but then if the translator has their own computer why doesn't she send her email from there?
Vicky, I know she is a scammer and I know these letters are canned and I'm pasting her letter of yesterday below.
The main text of the letter is written in 99% perfect English and with the exception of my name at the top it could have been written to any guy at any time, all her letters (4) have been like this!
The P.S. is the only part of the letter that is written personally to me BUT it is written differently. It has been added to an already written letter, the give away is such words as 'you should arrive to me to Ukraine' and 'shall be glad you to meet'. This is very different English to the text of the main letter, it has been written by a different method or by a different person or at a different time!!!


Hello my Dear Martin,

With every letter of yours, I seem to be closer and closer to
you! It's a pity that I have no computer at home, as I would wish much to write you more often. I didn't tell you yet, that I use the internet cafe to communicate with you. It is situated far from my work and my home, so it takes me much time to come here. That's why I can't write as often as I would like to.
My knowledge of English isn't excellent yet. I learn it myself
by books that I have, I also ask for consulting with teachers at our school. But I my English isn't perfect yet. I use interpreter's help now. This is my private interpreter. I would like to tell you a little, for you to understand that I have some kind of problem. It deals financial side of the corresponding. I know that it may be not very pleasant for you to read it. But I can't hide it from you. And I have nobody to share this problem with. The thing is that my wage is only 40$ per month, and the correspondence takes me almost the same sum. I have counted that I won't be able to stay this way for a long time. I can't ask my mother for help, as she is a pensioner. I think that we both are interested in our farther relations, and I would be happy if you agreed to help me a
little financially to pay for interpreter and internet. Of course, I feel a shame to speak about this. But I have no other way out. I hope for your understanding and support.
Please, understand me right. Don't think want lie to you. I am
very interested in our relations and our future meeting. These money isn't worth to lose each other. But right thanks to these money we can continue our relations. I ask you to forgive me one more time and understand me. Please, reply me in any case, as I will worry much till I get your next letter.
I send my tender hug

[Nataliya]

Internet- you pay for it- true, but only once a month and it doesn't cost much, if going to Internet Cafe- you pay for exactly the time you use and how long does it take to send couple of e-mails? To send a letter from post office- simple cost of a stamp. Usually it takes a week to reach Western Europe by air mail and about 2 weeks for North America, therefore- no real need to use special delivery services.

Translation charges- just a lousy excuse to make some quick cash. Girl who is serious about the guy she is corresponding with- will try to do her best in learning the language, even if she has to use the help of on-line translator at first. It can be a bit confusing at the beginning, but I am sure it'll be very appreciated by her partner for trying to make a personal touch, rather than using perfect "form letters" from services. At the end of the day, when she meets the guy- what is she gonna do? use the sign language?! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Vicky]

Martin, i wasn't telling anything if the girl's a scammer or not, just told you it's pretty normal if she tells you she pays for translation and postage whatever postage it is, and it's e-mail we're talking now. Just that the price she gives is higher than it can be.
A friend of mine was once exchanging letters with an italian guy and she studied the language but wanted her letters to be well-written, so that there's no misunderstanding especially at the initial stage of getting together. Thus she fully used the translation services, and it cost her here about a dollar per letter.

[MartinUK]

Hi Vicky,
Yes, I understand what you are saying, the point here however that this lady is not having these letters translated.
They are 'canned' letters, previously written and stored on a computer or disc and it would be reasonable to assume that I am not the only guy being sent and being asked to pay for these same letters.
OK, I can understand someone, whose English is poor, having their letters already prepared BUT she is at best, being economic with the truth however, and bearing in mind, she sent me a 'sexy' pic of herself immediately before asking for money, well what do you think Vicky?
The next letter(s) should confirm my suspicions!

[katya]

Sorry, about what is talk ?
Is she scammer or not ? I think , that it is very hard to not see, who is she.
About translator. Now there is really good translators at Internet. As I know, people use translator- human, when they translate papers.
And if girl have so many problems with English, write letter to her, translate it in translator at Russian, and when she will write answer for you ( at Russian. I hope, there will not be problems with it ? )) translate it at English.
You will can understand each other ;)))
Café

[keeper]

Hello,
it might not hurt to check out some blacklists as I did that and found both of the ladies I wrote to on there...saved me time....was not planning on sending cash!

[Thunderdome]

Ever thought of getting the details of the Internetcafé she frequents off her, contacting them and opening a limited account for her - which you pay for direct?
You could even request a usage-record so as to keep track of her activities, especially welcome if she says you're the only one she writes to.
Only morons send cash...

[MartinUK]

Hey Guys,
The lady is history as far as I'm concerned. I've been doing this for too long to fall for the sexy pic followed by a request for money equivalent to 2 months salary (for her).

Dear everybody in this session. I have been reading this very carefully. On top of that I have been living in Eastern Europe for some time.It is a fact that most young beautifull women from Russia would like to exchange their life in Russia for a supposed better one in Europe. They have lots of love and friendship to give, but mostly they are not understood. Now look at us men on the other side. We are not always that clean in our search over the internet as well in respect to finding a wife or life compannion. Many just browse these sites in order to organise a girlfriend for the case they will have to go on a business trip near that place(cheap possibility to have distraction). Others think that it is for them the way out to get married to a woman looking like a moviestar, and to show off. It looks that somebody is complaining about nothing. These women have no money and are looking to improve their life. Indeed they pay agencies or translationservices as they want to be understood. Their income is often indeed as stated above 40 US$ per month. Internet cafe costs money. I think it is for everybody to decide if yes or no he would like to pay money in order to continue any correspondence. If you dont want to pay you just stop. On the other hand if you really feel good in the correspondence, their is some respons, and you might feel attraction, you have to ask yourslef the question if it is worth the maount they are asking you. Afterall I am the master of my wallet. Some men over here even spend forunes on women where they might not even have the possibility to get something in return as they get dumped in the end anyway.

So I do not agree to make such a fuzz about these items. It is people who absolutely do not understand post soviet life and who have never been there, and who do not know how caring a Russian wife/girlfriend or fiancee can be if she is really loved for what she is and not how she looks.

Be honnest men, you only browse and react if the picture somehow gives you that satisfaction. I did it myself and I had a realtionship with one of these beauties. It did not turn out very good between us but that happens all over the world. But I can tell you this it was worth every penny, effort and I would do it again as in the period of time we were together I was very happy, and I hope she will be happy in hte future as well.

[MartinUK]

Antony,
I hear what you are saying, I can see the angle you are coming from and in many respects you post a valid point of view.
I speak from 5 years experience, it has become 5 years not by choice but by meeting the wrong types however I will not pretend for one minute I know it all, like all of us (except perhaps Herman) we are all learning and our learning of life will continue until the day we die.
OK, I agree life can be hard in FSU and perhaps, once true feelings have been developed it would not be unreasonable for the guy to assist the lady with correspondence.
The point made earlier in this post was firstly, she asked for this money at too early a stage. Secondly, she asked for the money immediately after sending a 'sexy' pic of herself. And thirdly, she was not writing nor having her letters translated because they were canned! In 4 letters she answered only 1 question, the remainder of her 4 letters talked about general 'garbage' but nothing whatsoever in response to the letters I was writing to her.
Any newbies reading this should be aware to detect the 'canned' letter and also bear in mind the same canned letters may be going out to perhaps 100 diifferent guys all of whom are being sent the same sexy pic and being asked to cough-up $80.
That equates to $8,000, not bad for a few letters stored on a computer!!!
Of course there are many genuine ladies out there who struggle to meet correspondence costs, just learn to think with your brain, not with your prick, and as they say 'never fall in love with a photo'.

Antony,
You sound like the girl for me ! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[bat_guano]

Anthony,
I am inclined to listen to Martin...he saved me a LOT of grief...AND money.

Yes, there are 2 sides to the story and, yes, there are preditors out there of female AND male stripes. We just have to hang together on this (and I'm sure there are others) board and help each other by giving sound advice and the sage advice experience has given us (Thank you Martin).

But there is one piece of advice for those of us that are serious about this. And that piece of advice is...never, no matter how many times you get scammed...NEVER give up. Ever.

Bat

Anthony, all kidding asside I would invest in Martin and Bats' support and advice!
http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Ronnie

Hey Guys , can anyone send me to a blacklist site ? My direct addy

[MartinUK]

On another site, an American guy, going totally OTT, defending FSU ladies 101% claimed they could not even afford to eat, that was the reason they are thin, and there is no reason why a guy should not send money. This guy was crazy, it was clear he was just there to impress the ladies with his wads of cash and I guess I have to say living 100% to the reputation Americans are known for ..... no offence intended.
Now, over the course of 5 years I dread to think how many profiles I have browsed but I guess an FSU lady's average weight is somewhere around 55kg. Now, by some countries standards!!! at 55kg malutrition may be setting in but not by European standards. Telling the guy this he became offended!!!

[bat_guano]

Martin is totally right on target with this. May I say this right now with all sincereity...I destest and loath the picture of the "Ugly American". The brash, loud-talking, "cash-flashing" individual. And now, sadly enough, the overweight individual.

I look in Eastern Europe for women who know how to take care of themselves and pride themselves in the way their body looks...not the flabby, sweaty, grossly overweight women ridden with diabetes that we have here now (and what passes for "normal" because of political correctness).

Look, if I wanted skinny and emaciated...sadly enough...I'd look on the Ethopian dating board.

Bat

[Nataliya]

Guys,

Don't you fall for the oldest trick in the world. People can't afford to eat? Common, Russia is not exactly African desert with no water and earth. Russia/Ukraine have the most fertile chernozem earth,it's always enough potatoes and bread. People are not sleeping on the streets. Go have a look for yourself. There are also much more rich, "semi rich" people in Russia then you know. All the time I hear this pitiful stories of the "poor nation" that God forgot- makes me want to scream. Most of such "begger" girls are just good actresses. Ever thought-if she can't afford food- where does she get money for all the pretty dresses they wearing on profile pictures? Nice make up, jewelry, accessories (e.g.designer sun glasses, belts)? Look at some locations those pictures are taken, some on holidays somewhere, some in shops...Do you think they borrowed all that for a photoshoot?!! I've just looked on the very first page of freepersonals- look good at the pictures, it's all there. Somehow I don't think that woman who wears last season fashion Moschino sunglasses, gold earrings and D&G suit- would ever suffer from hunger. Men's problem all they look at is pretty face and good body and never analize the rest. Well, that's cyberworld and that's the only way to "get to know" the person or at least to have some idea. That and the letters. Look a little further then "eye can meet".

[bat_guano]

Nataliya,
You are sooooooo right! Now that I am writing a woman, I browse the profiles looking for obvious scammers ("woman 19 looks for man 35-65", professional model photos, pictures showing all her "assets", etc.). There are so many healthy looking women in very nice clothes (maybe not designer in some cases...but nice nonetheless). What I do not see is women standing there with their ribs almost poking through their skin...emaciated and in rags.

Another thing I do not see in the profiles are statements like "God, I HATE this country!!! Please marry me and take me away from here!" or blatent honesty like "I want to live a better life, so if you will send me some money, not much, maybe $100, then I can live better and you'll feel better too."

It may sound silly, but I'd rather see that than "Woman 19 wants to meet man 35-65."

Bat

[Nataliya]

Hi Bat,

Yeah, the designer stuff, I was surprised myself! LOL Here I was on first page of the catalogue and this girl was just there staring at me in her couple of hundred $ suit, looking like a christmas tree with all her accessories! LOL There was another 2 more pics of her all in different outfits and locations, one looked like somewhere around Med. She was looking for someone between 40-65 and her occupation was not stated. Beautiful women,no doubts, but that made me look through few more pics and discover if not the same expensive clothes, then just very good quality ones and "mandatory" pair of gold earrings. Since I travelled the world extensively including "3d world" countries- I've seen what starving and poor people look like and the girls on site are not it. Strange thing,but those starving people never begged me for any money,they were offering some handmade items in exchange for money,even kids. That touched me a lot. Now I'm confused are those starving people who never even heard of things like Internet, notebook,DVD..have more dignity then those who live not in luxury, but "warm and fed"? Also why those girls(not talking about the whole population) speculate on stories about their "poor" lives and try to make men pity them?? Do you ,guys, looking for a partner in life to go through "sick and sin" or for a beautiful toy to upkeep?

[Thunderdome]

Nata,

please let's haggle about a trade-off? I don't like your proposal so black & white stated, ahum, pink & baby-blue.

- What's wrong with a beautiful body through sick and sin? It keeps things up and then the rest goes from itself. Don't you really know how men work?

Just a thought.
Then again Bat, that supermodel 19 y/o wanting men between 35 and 65 - c'mon pal, let's have her details, I just make that age-bracket.
But I do hunch (and I've been proven wrong here) that you just might bea bit too cautious.
Go to AFA's site and click onany 'general' page, orderform or tour-info or whatever. Refresh screen frequently and see what stunners come up. I once bought some of these women's addresses and wrote them, something you by the sounds of the above would/will not do.

Three replies were dodgy: one died early, one proved commercial and the third exceptionally evasive, even when I was in her city.
The fourth was an absolute fully above board genuine stunner who turned out to be SO honest that when I offered some cash (for reasons explained) she fumingly threatened me with "I'll put it in a Bank here for you!!!" http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But you should know that Russians do not trust banks a lot!

Moral of the story is that even these nice pictures can be very misleading. My advice is buy a handful of them addresses and see what you get. If zilch you've learned a lot, and one may always play, not so?
But one/some also may turn out real - what a pleasure.

[Nataliya]

Thunder,

There's absolutelly nothing wrong with beautiful body! I won't break a big news by saying that I rather prefer fit and toned man's body to flabby and obese!

[bat_guano]

Thunder,
Absolutely! If there's a drop-dead gorgeous 19 year old who really wants a 35-65 year old male...GREAT!!! I'll be right there! Table for one! But I think you'll find that the grossly disproportionate number will be scammers. http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

You know, it might be nice also to write different women giving them hints and tips too. Some of the pictures posted in profiles are absolutely HORRID! Even though she might be a pleasant looking woman, her main picture causes men to pass right by. Also, give them some tips about what they write (or, more importantly, what they do not write) in their profile. After all, I want women who truly want to find mates to find them.

Yes, I do look at the cute and even beautiful photos, but more than that, I look at photos of women with interesting faces. Faces that show intelligence or have unusual features that make them stand out. Many times, they are not even what would be considered "good" looking...but they have an interesting face. And they range from 19 years old to 50. Those are the ones I click on.

Nataliya,
A quick story about my brother. He took a tour of Africa when he was stationed (Navy) over there. The guy he was traveling with wanted a shield one of the natives had. The native wouldn't take cash for it...but would trade the shield for the guy's tennis shoes. So sure enough, the guy sat down, took off his tennis shoes and went home with the native's shield!

Bat

[Thunderdome]

Hey Bat,

just got another one. Ravishing reveiling Oksana was so nice to volunteer to send me mail, with (Ooohh) a picture. How precisely I dunno, but she got my details from someone, I think from an agency I contacted, and sent me letters. Number 3 just landed.


What I sent back first was chit-chat and a nice request to please send me her profile's details because I did not know her and she was going on about it. Of course she sent a (slurp) nice picture.

Of course I got a letter back utterly unrelated to what I'd wrote, and obviously not answering anything I'd asked. But, you guessed it, she (drool) sent another picture.

Now I thought I go play a little, and cut & pasted the same request I'd sent and mailed it to her.

A different letter with a different (sigh) picture came el pronto. Of course it was addressed to my neighbor.
Hell, what to do next I thought? I mean, gullible me, she really looks a dish, and I could feel myself thinking.
So I wrote her this:

...
thank you for your letter, but something is bothering me. You have not taken the trouble to read my first letter. You also have not wasted time to skip reading the second one either, and the funny thing is they both contain the identical, rather specific request.
Now I was just wondering wether you are just plain stupid or that something is wrong with you eyes. If you have a problem with your eyesight then fine, that's the reason why I've increased the size a bit - hope you don't mind?
...

..followed by, in the absolute maximum bold font MS supplies the same, identical request - and nothing else!


You see, I'm good, hunkish, and know how to treat women! She says she likes me a LOT!! Yippeeee!!!
Ah ya, she also needs some money, but very little really. She also volunteers all coplete details so that WU can reach her.

Now the supply of those details she should not have done, that was really not necessary. But very nice of her, and, because she gave them to me, I will use them.

At least it's another one on the list, and those details will remain.
NEXT!!!

[Thunderdome]

Nataliya,

judging by your English you're out of Russia already for some time. But I was there recently (which makes me an up-to-date Expert http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif and I think I know why these women want to slim:

You see, they earn little. Yeah, enough to buy food from, and pay for transport etcetera, but that

[Nataliya]

Hey Thunder,


You can't judge by my English,it didn't change much (except slang) since I left, nor do I live in English spoken country. Few weeks, months or even years would never make you better expert in Russian women or life then me, I lived 19 years there and still visit my family from time to time. Also my question wasn't why they slim down. I know why,and it's not for the bunch of reasons that you mentioned above. I don't think 55kg is anywhere near being overweight, unless you're 99sm tall midget, which is extremely rare. You missed the whole irony of it. Everything I said in my last post was related to scammers "tricks" and I was trying to show how pathetic sometimes their stories are. I was not talking about

[Vicky]

Thunder,

your lightning disastrously missed the tree http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Thunderdome]

Vicky,

Stay out of this! Fooi! Nosy woman! I

[Nataliya]

[QUOTE= (Thunderdome @ Sep. 17 2003,10:35)]Natik, do you believe in Father Chrismas?