lugansk

[baddog]

I've followed some of the messages here and am kinda confused. on the one hand the women I am coresponding with, has never asked for money and we have been writing for over 3 months now.

On the other hand her translation service requested money saying she was $20 in debt. From what I've read on here, it would seem the agency would never let any one go in to debt? corect?

I did send money to pay off the debt and then some for more letters. Later I sent her money of my own with out her requesting it. After asking me what she should do with the money and me replying " what ever you would like to", she put it towards the translation service again.

She has since then said she lost her job but will have a new one soon and the her ex husband will help her out if nede be. She has not asked for any money. Anyways I plan to go to kiev in january and meet her there. I will probably send her money to go there and also she has requested a seperate apartment.

I really trust people to much and it would be nice not to get burned, but it is a cold world out there. is there any one that can check her out for me? If need be, I can

[MartinUK]

Baddog,
Baddog, am I correct in my understanding that after a period of time, she could no longer afford to write to you, the AGENCY (not her) asked for money and now you are paying for her correspondence?
Well think about it, in your country you will have premium rate telephone numbers where you pay for the call and ladies will say nice things to you, sound familiar?
Do you have the name or address of the translation service to do a google search, if that fails you could google search for 'Lugansk Scam', it is sometimes spelt Luhansk. Such a search will reveal many results but if you read through you may find the translators email address or perhaps your ladies first letters to you, that is if she is part of an organisation!
Anywhere else in FSU I'd be more open-minded but Lugansk, I'm erring on the side of caution and I don't believe any genuine agency would ask the man for money because a lady is in debt, that's too much of a familiar scam scenario.
Martin

[MartinUK]

Baddog,
What are the costs per letter?

[baddog]

the following are the 2 letters from the translation agency

Dear Mr Terry Boots,

Thanks a lot for your interest to our client Lyudmila Bobrovitskaya. But we have some problems, connected with your correspondence. It turned out that Lyuda is currently not able to pay for your lettering. She has been paying for the lettering in time, but not so long

[baddog]

PS I did a search on the phone number earlier and it is a number in lugansk.

Baddog,

I wouldn't pay attention on the phone number,at least they aren't that stupid to give number of another city,phones and codes can be traced,no big deal. If I were you-I'd pay real good attention to the e-mail "rambler.ru"-?? Not a Lugansk service provider,not even Ukrainian. Once you register company in Lugansk and Internet connection,in this case Dating agency-you are provided with local server,your default server. Of course,anyone can open an account in any country(here Russia),but why?
Why don't you ask account manager,that very simple question before sending any money.

99% it's another none-existant agency typical ,pattern,does it have a name?

[baddog]

I have sent an e mail to the translation agency requesting the balance, address and telephone number of it. We shall see what I get. I suspect I will get something from them tomorrow or maybe never. Kinda strange how she sent me pictures of her and her daughter.

While I await this information, does any one have an opinion about if it's better to converse with a lady from one of these agencies or just get over there and find someone? Any one ever deal with " A Foreign Affair" A.K.A. "LoveMe.com"?

[MartinUK]

Baddog,
I agree with what the others have said and I would add that letter for money, well I've seen similar letters many times before. $4-5 a letter is excessive (a monthly salary is approx $50), are the letters in perfect English or do they contain spelling mistakes or the occassional Russian word? Perfect would indicate the are 'canned', spelling mistakes then they are translated manually, Russian words then translated electronically.
Another sign is that they only accept WU payment, another is the amateur email address, another is the money should be sent to the lady when she is already in debt with themselves.
Baddog, I would say the probabilities of this being a scam are 85%.

[MartinUK]

It's better to correspond before you meet but I never correspond via an agency for the reasons you are just learning about! Get her personal contact details soonest, even if she uses an internet cafe they are approx $1 an hour thus $20 a month.
If an agency or lady refuses to give contact details and insists communications are via the agency then walk, no, run away.

[baddog]

Unfortunately most of the letters have not been caned at least in part as I have always asked questions, ranging from "What would your daughter like to study in college" to " What would you like to see and do in Kiev" There have been some spelling errors in the writings, still there have been no recent photos of her and her daughter. On the other side of the coin though she did get one of my hand written notes snail-mailed to her and answered the questions in it without being prompted.

Life is a cold place and I guess it's time I got a coat. http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[baddog]

In other words, after the telephone calls and and snail mail I can conclude there is a least a living female at the other end.

[MartinUK]

It's better to correspond before you meet but I never correspond via an agency for the reasons you are just learning about! Get her personal contact details soonest, even if she uses an internet cafe they are approx $1 an hour thus $20 a month.
If an agency or lady refuses to give contact details and insists communications are via the agency then walk, no, run away.

P.S. A living female is not always a genuine female, far from it! If you haven't already then a good education is to google search for 'Russia blacklist' and read thru all the blacklists to see the scam tactics.

[Tom]

It's better to correspond before you meet but I never correspond via an agency for the reasons you are just learning about! Get her personal contact details soonest, even if she uses an internet cafe they are approx $1 an hour thus $20 a month.
If an agency or lady refuses to give contact details and insists communications are via the agency then walk, no, run away.

P.S. A living female is not always a genuine female, far from it! If you haven't already then a good education is to google search for 'Russia blacklist' and read thru all the blacklists to see the scam tactics.
Martin,
I don't have much experience in this, but you obviously do.
Do you think it may be more than merely possible that Baddog is honest and the girl is honest, but perhaps only the agency is dishonest?
I don't know how they operate, and it is obvious that they 'create' women to get money out of men. But perhaps they have a few 'real' clients, also. And rather than actually helping those women, they jeopardize the relationship in order to milk more money from the man.
Considering that Baddog has recieved some 'real' respones, I suspect the girl may be 'real.' I think the true scam agencies go for the 'easy buck' and don't bother with anything beyond the canned responses. The real money is in 'volume' not 'custom service'!! ;)

Baddog,
Before losing hope, you should take Martin's advice and get contact information from the lady in order to communicate with her directly. Of course, the agency will try to prevent it, as they are trying to make money off of you. But I imagine if you are somewhat clever, you can find a way to 'butt' the agency out of this relationship (assuming it is real to begin with.)

[MartinUK]

Tom,
Yes you have a valid point and perhaps Baddog might find a way to sidetrack the agency.
However, this is Lugansk we are talking about, the supposed and renowned scam capital of FSU so one should always be suspicious.
It is sometimes a scam that agencies ask for money without the lady knowing but in this instance the agency are asking the money be sent to the lady and not themselves. This has every indication that the lady and the agency are one and the same thing.

[baddog]

I would hope we were wrong, and she is real. The letter I snail mailed wasn't translated so she had some one do it. Her english skills from talking to her on the phone were very bad, but then again I was kind of excited and I'm sure I talked very fast. Hopefully tomorrow I will have the contact information of the agency. If not, then I guess the worst.

There is one strange thing I should mention. How I original ran in to her. I was a subscribing member of yahoo personals. She had an add for Virginia Beach. I figured, eh what the heck and sent a letter to her account. I got a response 2 days later to e her at the current RU address. It was probably after about 10 letters before the agency contacted me.

Anyways I guess if this turns out to be a scam, I think I just might do one of those romance tours like they have over on that loveme.com site. Any one no anybody who has done one of those?

Thanks for any help in these matters, and for helping me keep things in perspective

[pr8head]

Hello baddog,

Is her address "redlady@rambler.ru"? She has a teenage daughter named Julia? I sent her money too to cover her letters. I spoke to her many times on the phone as well and the only "winner" was AT&T. I didn't think of her as a scammer until I read your post and saw that it was similar to my dialogue with her.

Be careful!

???

[baddog]

Hello baddog,

Is her address "redlady@rambler.ru"? She has a teenage daughter named Julia? I sent her money too to cover her letters. I spoke to her many times on the phone as well and the only "winner" was AT&T. I didn't think of her as a scammer until I read your post and saw that it was similar to my dialogue with her.

Be careful!

http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
I feel like saying " It's a small world" eh. Yes that would be the one. So now we know.

Let it be known also her translation agency sent the following reply today:

You ran out of the money you sent to Lyuda. And she has put 50$ to pay for the further correspondence. Thus you have 50$ on your account.
Our address is:
Karl Marx str.,1
Lugansk 91000
UKRAINE
As for a telephone number, we can be reached at +38-050-693-7650.

Sincerely,
Olga Grekova

Still, has she told you she just lost her job? Have you sent her money, or this translation agency? Was the translation agency evasive about giving their address to you? How did you run in to her?
http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

I still haven't had a chance to google the adress of the agency yet. but I will some time in the next few hours.

[baddog]

Well I looked up the address and the only thing I found was a couple of people on the same street as the agency were guilty of spaming.

Good day to all the guys out there, I am in the same boat not knowing if it is a scam or not so I did some home work and found the way out. You can visit a site called http://translation2.paralink.com/ here you can type your message in english and the site will translate into Russian on the otherside your lady can write to you in Russian you copy paste it to the site and it translates within a second too english. A lot gets mixed up but you have a 90% accurate translation at no cost. The only thing your lady has to do is go to a internet cafe open a free hotmail account and you are a away no money needed except for the internet cafe which is a lot cheaper than the translation services. I have come across some agencies that refuse to pass any details like personal email on from me or the ladies and they charge $8 per letter. Shame on them they are openly ripping people off. Yes make your money with the introduction then have the couple exchange their info. That is why I admire sites like this someone just looking to help those lonely few out there. Keep up the good work

Michael S f http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[NIKOS_GRE]

We made a lot of statements about translations etc etc.I really can't understand why we are aftering non english speaking girls.I guess there are a lot of girls speaking fluently english.Much better choises.

[MartinUK]

Nikos,
There are many girls out there who's level of English is not good enough to write in English.
But these girls normally have the means, a fiend to help them, a electronic translator etc.
One of the biggest scams is writing to a letter from a free site only to receive 'that' letter from a supposed agency, run like hell, don't give them a cent.

Our address is:
Karl Marx str.,1
Lugansk 91000
UKRAINE
As for a telephone number, we can be reached at +38-050-693-7650.

Sincerely,
Olga Grekova
There is no agency at the above address and the phone is private mobile number in Ukraine,could be anywhere. How much more proof do you need?? Why men are so stupid?!!

[baddog]

[QUOTE= (baddog @ Oct. 30 2003,15:01)]Our address is:
Karl Marx str.,1
Lugansk 91000
UKRAINE
As for a telephone number, we can be reached at +38-050-693-7650.

Sincerely,
Olga Grekova
There is no agency at the above address and the phone is private mobile number in Ukraine,could be anywhere. How much more proof do you need?? Why men are so stupid?!!

[MartinUK]

Perhaps a definition of stupid might be an individual who posts without so much as an identity and posts information, perhaps invaluable information, without revealing how they sourced that information.
Or perhaps another definition of stupid is someone who comes along making a big announcement of something that even 'stupid men' had already worked out to be a scam.

Perhaps a definition of stupid might be an individual who posts without so much as an identity and posts information, perhaps invaluable information, without revealing how they sourced that information.
Or perhaps another definition of stupid is someone who comes along making a big announcement of something that even 'stupid men' had already worked out to be a scam.
...Or perhaps those men are stupid,because they spend too much time searching for a scam,that they forgot why they are on this site at all! Perhaps, they pay too much attention on irrelevant information instead of looking for a bride at the place they live! Or -just perhaps- they are not good enough for their own women,that they look for poor Russian desperate ones,so they don't end up alone and sad creatures at their "tender" age??? Take your pick.

Source- very easy,one just have to call Ukrainian info service and ask what office/organisation is at certain address,same for the phone number. They won't give your details,but they tell you what kind of number it is,in this case mobile. BUT those "not stupid men" are so "smart" that they can't even bother to use their brain in the right direction.

As for "big announcement"-use it if you can't get info yourself- so far you,guys get scammed over and over again- not me!

[MartinUK]

!,
You see I don't get scammed because I never send any money, as soon as there is a mention of money I move on and get on with my life.
Others perhaps, waste their life becoming obsessed regarding scammers, making telephone calls whilst accumulating out-of-pocket expenses, it is all so uneccessary and perhaps stupid.
I'm not even going to enter into a discussion regarding why I choose to date ladies from other countries except to say that I have lived away from my own country for a number of years thus hasn't been practical to date my own people!

!,
You see I don't get scammed because I never send any money, as soon as there is a mention of money I move on and get on with my life.

I'm not even going to enter into a discussion regarding why I choose to date ladies from other countries except to say that I have lived away from my own country for a number of years thus hasn't been practical to date my own people!


Really?!! You don't get scammed?!!! Not in a conventional money sending way,I suppose. But wasn't that you who keep going to Russia/Ukraine every so often and keep coming back without a girl and much lighter wallet?!! and then whining about it on the forum?!! You didn't do your homework,Martin, sometimes stupid phone call will save you time and cash,but looking for Russian wife you didn't even learn few basic words in Russian,so thephone call is out of questions,keep "googling"!

I know you don't enter the discussion,I read couple of threads,when it gets hot-you duck! Maybe that is one of the reasons you're still looking,girls don't like coward guys. But you can insult people very well,that's for sure,especially Germans,even made a little song about them-very nice,adds you extra quality.

It wasn't practical to date your own people?!! There was no women in foreign country that you lived in for number of years?? Was it all men country??! I doubt that,but you're still single and that says something,even in foreign country women didn't want you for a husband. Instead of trying to assure yourself in that statment of yours-try to find why it doesn't work-you and women. Look into yourself,you'll find it.

Good luck.

[MartinUK]

!,
Get your facts straight, it is not me going to Russia/Ukraine every so often and coming back with a lighter wallet. In fact, I have never been to Russia and have been to Ukraine only once last month.
Furthermore, I have learnt a few words of both Russian & Moldovian so you really do need to be factual in your posts.
Hereafter I am not going to lower myself to the level of your immaturity by entering into a childish squabble, I'll leave the whining to you!

Hereafter I am not going to lower myself to the level of your immaturity by entering into a childish squabble, I'll leave the whining to you!
How very original of you!! I see that line in all your posts when it comes to serious conversations and requires some answeres,but where you can't think of one.

Level of my immaturity?!! I'm sure you can't lower yourself that much, can you get 20 years off your shoulders?!!- don't think so! Of course I'm a "child",baby-girl in fact and I have lots of fun observing how you're trying to defend yourself!!

[MartinUK]

And yes, there were women in those other countries I lived, in fact 40% of the population were alien to one country including FSU women. Beginning to get the picture ..... good.
You talk about seeing lines in my posts, then go find the lines where I keep going to Russia/Ukraine and returning with a lighter wallet.
Come back and respond after you been to see an optician and please don't call me darling, that right is pivelidged and you're not worthy!

And yes, there were women in those other countries I lived, in fact 40% of the population were alien to one country including FSU women. Beginning to get the picture ..... good.
You talk about seeing lines in my posts, then go find the lines where I keep going to Russia/Ukraine and returning with a lighter wallet.
Come back and respond after you been to see an optician and please don't call me darling, that right is pivelidged and you're not worthy!
Darling,

Ooops,forgot- would pillock sound better?!! You know, to be worthy guys like you-is not a big privelige,you're too full of selfimportance and worry too much about your money for my liking,not mentioning too old(at least you sound it).

However, I was just passing by,I had my fun,but you're not strong enough opponent,not worthy my time- I don't argue with losers. Guys like you made this forum really boring.

So, I leave you to stick around this forum in peace for another 5 years or so!!

[Thunderdome]

!

You have to go? http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
Interesting reading though.

!
Guys go for a trip to FSU, they meet some women it doesn't work out, so what? nothing ventured , nothing gained, so what, its hardly a scam, guy might go to spain and eat and drink have some fun, is it a scam? money is for spending, if you don't get what you expect then maybe its a scam, but most men going there know they may date some girls and come back with nothing, its just a holiday.
I too live in foreign country, Greece, if I tried to hitch up with some local girl, the family are going to have plenty to say! so maybe try and ask Martin some more pertinent questions before making a judgement.
You been to Kuwait ! ? you think a man can find a woman there for marriage, he probably would be hard pushed even to find a hooker for the night, not all countries are the same in regard to level of freedom or choice.

I didn't come here to offend anyone,merely gave some info about address and phone number I happen to know about. But Martin stepped on my toes in his usual "proper" manner of a perfect British gentlemen! Since I read some threads,I noticed he does it to some people,mostly newcomers. I also noticed he's been searching around for years!! So,I pointed out on what I think he's doing wrong to get the attention of woman, not only Russian,but any. The picture he draw was not so pretty. Seems like women only hunt him for his money. Forgive me,but what money??as far as his posts show- he's just travel agent? or something to do with flights booking? well,same thing. He hardly makes a fortune,enough for living a batchelor life,that's all. My suggestion was to look deeper into the problem,show the good qualities you possess,charm the lady-don't just cry over money and find scam everywhere,even if it's not there,show some respect,not fake British "I think you're quite nice",read "I don't like you,but I don't have enough balls to tell you that".

But looks likes Martin throws his pompous speeches to put some people of this forum down and gives scamming advises instead of thinking what the hell can he (or guys like him) offer to the women? He's not looking for the woman of his own age,he doesn't want to spend any money,he wants her to come over to another country to live with him leaving family and friends behind and he doesn't look so charming to me. I'll ask again- why would any women marry someone like that?? Why to go through all this trouble? There's plenty of guys like that in FSU,what's so special about him? passport?? not enough,believe me,most of women would never live with such a nerd just for a piece of paper. Try to open a thread "Why do I think Russian woman should take me for a husband?" See what people got to say. Most of you think that living in Western world is enough for her to get attracted. All of you asking why Russian women want Western husbands,any of you want to answer: "Why do I think I'm good enough for beautiful,educated Russian woman,what makes me so special for her to live her motherland,her culture,everything and everyone she loves and spend the rest of her life with me?"

[Thunderdome]

!,

if you'd be registered you'd have mail already because I would not mind to have a chat with you.
Turn it around?

[MartinUK]

1. I have not been searching, merely browsing and meeting the occassional lady from time to time.

2. Women do not hunt me for my money and indeed many ladies have paid me compliments.

3. I am not a travel agent nor nothing to do with a travel agency however I do have a good in-depth knowledge of the world of travel and am pleased to offer advice to others to save them money.

4. By the way, how does 'Thunder-Gob' know how much a travel agent earns in UK?

5. Should a person here not understand the word 'knowledge', it means to be knowledgable and not to pretend you know everything when you clearly don't!

6. I hardly make a fortune eh? Well we can all see where you're coming from you 'tart', I'd love to talk about my money but the subject is taboo in the real world.

7. Has anyone here seen me crying over money?

8. Where have I ever said I am not looking for a lady who is not a similar age to myself? Ever heard of the expression 'talking out of your ass'?

9. Who says Russian women are beautiful? As I said previously, I have never been to Russia. Beauty is more than skin deep and there ain't nothing beautiful about this one we have here!

10. So much talking out of her ass and still no answer to where I posted about my trips to Russia & Ukraine and returning with a lighter wallet!

11. I respect someone who has the balls to speak but they do need to speak from their mouth and not their ass. They should also put their brain into gear before opening mouth or in this instance, opening ass rather than post a catalogue of bullshit.

12. All in all, Thunder-Ass's postings are so infactual they amuse me and at the end of the day I can accept I'm not perfect, to be perfect is not human, but I know I'm a far better person than this tart!

!,

if you'd be registered you'd have mail already because I would not mind to have a chat with you.
Turn it around?
Need some tips on how to "haunt" Russian baby-girls?!! Just ask what you want to know,not sure I want to get registered in this forum,doesn't look like fun to me so far and I'm not interested in scam hunting. Lets see if it's going to pick up.

Not sure whether to answer this ridicule myself or let Thunderdome to answer it,since smart guy Martin seems to think we are the same person!!! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Martin,your IQ just dropped 50 points! Or was it all you had?!!

[MartinUK]

I have said all I have to say, let's see some answers to the points I have raised.
I have no reason to believe Thinderdome and Thunder-Gob or is it Thunder-Ass are one and the same.
You came here calling men stupid, I think we can all see who the stupid one is here. You say I have an attitude problem, try looking in the mirror darling.

Just did! I mean,just looked in the mirror- I like what I see,maybe I need a touch more of a lip gloss! If you're talking about inner mirror- fine with that too,thank you,I don't have attitude problems,just don't like assholes. I'm far from believing that all men are stupid,meant for individuals like yourself.That ass you're talking about-I'm sure you see it in your mirror every day!

Are you trying to fight with the woman,dear?! How very gentleman like of you!! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Besides, you don't stand a chance with this "tart"!! Is that all you're good for?!! Are you sure those women paid you compliments,not just took a piss of you? Imagination plays tricks sometimes you know.

[MartinUK]

Yawn ...................

[Thunderdome]

!,

I am not interested in (quote: "haunt" Russian baby-girls) for I am too old & wise for such. But because I also tend to read between the lines I notice you

Thunderdome,

maria22@netbox.ru

[MartinUK]

Thunderdome,
Whilst I disagree with a vast content of your post I have said very recently that I can respect someone who speaks their mind. You, unlike her, have engaged your brain before opening your mouth and whilst your post is somewhat infactual, I do congratulate you for using your brain.
That said, you post is clever, well semi-clever and by your wording you believe you have left me no option but to respond to your taunts for fear of being branded a coward.
Well guess what? If we were in a bar and you were taunting me and trying to fight with me I would walk away and that is exactly what I'm going to do now. This is not an act of cowardise but an act of maturity.
Fighting is for children, being factually correct is for adults!
Poka

[liam]

G'Day.............Jeeeeeez, its all a wee bit excitable http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif cool.

Maria22, well, your a feisty wee thing!..........but all your huff and bluff had disappeared after a couple of sweet, complimenatry words from Thunder!!!!!!!(never heard of the concept of telling a girl what she wants to hear!!!!!?))))))).....if i call you princess will you come to nz and sit on my knee? http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif LOL.
Martin, does it count if your in paid employment and get into a fight?..........cos i stopped wearing nappies years ago! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and please don't angry maria if really want we can fight I'll even let you win but only if your a fox! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
other-wise falling down of the ugly tree at birth is the least of your worries!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Whats with all the UK bashing?........did'nt we give Jerry a bloody-nose and save the world from nazi tyranny? (with the help of our Russia brother and sisters and a belated effort from our friends in Washington sorry Tom!) not to mention those pesky Boers! god-bless the concentration camps!!!!!!!!

Anyway time to go change my nappy! Liam

[Nataliya]

Look what happened!

New female around and forum moved! Not talking about the direction,but guys came out of the shadow and "fighting" over it after being dormant for ages. How refreshing!

Liam, if you call me princess- I might get that suitcase ready!

[Nataliya]

http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

No idea what happened to the Iconboard,it went crazy and kept duplicating my post! Could be virus! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[bat_guano]

Nataliya! Oh NO!! A Virus for Cyrus? A fungus among us??

Well, as long as all it does is post happy faces...it has to be OK.

http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Bat

[MartinUK]

Excuse me for getting back to the original subject but I recently responded to a lady from Ukraine only to learn from her reply that she was from Lugansk!

Oh no, here we go again I though but hey, at her age of 33 let's give her the benefit of the doubt!

I had written my opening letter in English with an electronic translation to Russian, her response was she couldn't understand the Russian translation and had a much better method of translation.

Her second letter went on to explain that her method of translation was a lady who's services she could not afford on a salary of $50-70 a month and not wishing to bore you with the remainder of the details you know the scenario!

I find myself questioning if there are any genuine ladies in Lugansk because with the ongoing reputation the city has it would seem that any genuine lady has little hope in hell of being taken seriously!

[humanistX]

I think that this Lugansk has terrible reputation. Jf course computer translation is very bad read. But if the woman is going to meet Western man why she does not start learning English? Some marriage agencies and consultants gice lessons of Englsih for the women whom they help. Why not to start using that service? Or to find Russian lady, who is more educated usually?
But besides English many of them do not have Interent access and do not have computer at home. Those who have fluent Englsih can go to internet cafe , but those who do not have skills of typing in English can face this problem. So when aldies ask for the help paying the consultant they get the packege of services . They get the translation of your letter, then the women give the headwritten letter (in Russian /Ukranian) and go home....Byt the way the lady in Lugansk probably does not know Russian, she is Ukranian!
Good luck to all....

[Thunderdome]

Gan tan hao !

Lian zhai wei shen mel zhe me ang jing

Wo me you chuang liao ku. Yie me you xin huang er liao ku zhi.

[MartinUK]

HumanistX,
Yes I agree with you however in Lugansk, they supposedly enter into correspondence at a cost of perhaps $5 a letter thus $10 per exchange of letters when they only earn a salary of $50 a month.
An internet cafe costs $1 an hour and electronic translators, whilst not perfect, are available free of charge online.
Why would any genuine lady enter into a correspondence where a single exchange of letters costs the equivalent of a week's salary?

[Thunderdome]

(just a re-activator.....) http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Oops,

Quote from a post by 'humanistX':
"...
Byt the way the lady in Lugansk probably does not know Russian, she is Ukranian!
..."

Food for thought.
Not the whole of the Former Sovjet Union is 'Russian'.

(The fact that the female in the original posting was accused of *not* being a Lady is a different point!)

I am sure there are a few lessons to be learnt...
(and I shall think of a way to express it...)


van

[MartinUK]

The common language of Ukraine is russian!

bat_guano
writes:
"...Nataliya! Oh NO!! A Virus for Cyrus? A fungus among us??..."

Excuse me for being pedantic (but it sort of gives me a diversion from things I should *really* be doing),
-and I know we do not read this forum for its scientific content

BUT

Virus and Fungus are two very different species!

van

PS Do you have a copy of Dr Strangelove on VHS/CD/DVD, etc.?
-Or do you live with the memories of it from the cinema?

[humanistX]

Yes, usually folks of FSU know Russian. But younger generations are not good in Russian. And...sometime people prefer to pretend they do not Russian, to emphasize how independent they are now. The same as French people often pretend they do not understand English. But those who live at the backyards sometime really do not know any other language but mothers' . The education there is very poor...but usually you do not face such girls, they are sitting quite in the villages. Except those who come to subdue big cities! Wow ... they are monsters, , they are walikng over heads... be carefull!

[Nataliya]

Before making such ridiculous statements one should make an attempt and brush through some geography lessons,also history might help.

"The girl from Lugansk didn't understand Russian because she is Ukrainian"http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif??? Kind of funny statment considering the population of Lugansk and region is 85% of Russian people, the rest 15%- Ukrainians,Greeks,Belorussian,Georgian...Interesti ng isn't it, not even mentioning that before 1989 it was only Russian language used,still now no one there speaks Ukrainian and definitely not pretending not to understand Russian. People simply have difficulties to adjust to a new (Ukrainian) language,because some of them even never learned it at school, Russian is their mother tongue for your information. Also you can hardly call Lugansk a village with 2 000 000 of inhabitants.For your knowledge Lugansk borders Russia in the East,North and South and its court of arms was granted by

[MartinUK]

Nataliya,
Hi again, I think you are 100% correct having correspondended with many UA ladies in my time. I would hasten to add there is a genuine reason why many French pretend not to understand English, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT, I say this having lived in a French inhabited country for a number of years.
Poka

Re. Language

By the way:

It has been claimed (by some Swedish people studying history) that the name Russia comes from the "Land of Russ"
-Russ being the name of a family brought in (contracted) to act as heavies (or Palace Guard) to subdue some tribes a few hundred years ago
-'a few' seen in the context of history:
it was roughly about the same time as when the Jutes harassed some people on some islands west of Europe (British ....)
-and - roughly about the time when some Norwegians landed in North America.

Now:
-had these people been a bit better at holding on to what they had:
1) the language of Russia would have been Swedish
2) we could all have this conversation in some Scandinavian gobbledygook language

Like the Chef in Muppets.

van

-Oops, I just revealed my TV watching habits!

[Nataliya]

Nataliya,
Hi again, I think you are 100% correct having correspondended with many UA ladies in my time. I would hasten to add there is a genuine reason why many French pretend not to understand English, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT, I say this having lived in a French inhabited country for a number of years.
Poka
Hi Martin,

I believe,it's true for lots of regions in France. But I lived in South of France and had some troubles with learning French, because everyone spoke English over there, could be because of the large number of tourists. Also spent some time in Paris,everywhere you could speak English,but locals really appreciate when you try your French,even a bad one. Don't you exspect people to speak English in UK? I mean,wouldn't you appreciate when person is trying his best?! I'd say I find it really touching when few of my friends learned some words in Russian and use it from time to time,makes me smile.

[Thunderdome]

Re: gobbledygook

Zeg Van,

begin jy nou ook lullig te doen? Als je iemand, of hele nationaliteiten, wilt beledigen moet je zo gaan beginnen, kun je er donder op zeggen dat je kommentaar krygt.

En dat verdien je dan ook, want een en ander zou je beslist kwalyk genomen kunnen worden, niet alleen door Zweden maar door alle scandinavische landen, gewoon omdat je ze volledig over een kam scheert.
Tot nu toe had ik er geen, of laat ik zeggen in het begin een verkeerd, idee van waar je vandaan komt. Echter, het enkele feit dat je Zweden en Scandinavie lichthartig gelyk stelt aan elkaar, een typisch fenomeen van een Amerikaner, laat gewoon geen twyfel over waar je vandaan komt.
Jouw soort kent alle staten van je eigen land, maar bent volledig verloren als je een paar andere landen op de wereldkaart moet aanwyzen.
Maar laat het je niet verlegen voelen, je eigen president kan het ook niet.

http://www.foreignword.com/Tools/transnow.htm

[MartinUK]

Nataly,
I think it might be a French / British thing. These 2 nations have a common dislike of each other thus even if one speaks the others language they may pretend they do not.
This said, I have some very good French speaking friends and they struggle with their English as much as I may struggle with my French.

Tnunderdome
writes:
"...
I you

Thunderdome,
re.: Re: gobbledygook

1) Thanks
2) I already knew that you knew a language developped by some Dutch people who went out in the midday sun without their hats. (Englishmen were not the only ones....)
3) My browser seems to be 'not compatible', so it's all:
"kannitverstand" [or however *that* is spelled...]

--Which brings me - in a kind of round-about way - to the topic of Scams, Communications, Translations, etc.

Assume the model:
Man---Agency---Woman

1) If the woman is a scammer....find a way to deal with that..
2) If the man....
3) If the Agency.:
Main Point for now: Get rid of the Agency, Avoid Agency, Establish the model:
Man---Woman

3 a) Snail mail does still exist. One person will have to read or write a foreign language or arrange privately for (trusted) translation. (Suggesting that hand-written letters on Air Mail Paper is OK may, by the way, be a way to deter scammers...)
3 b) Both parties have some Internet access. Same...
3 c) Question: Does the Russian mail service provide Fax printing and forwarding?
3 d) Personally I would not like to send something I myself did not understand. And I imagine I am not the only one. -So, if I had the letter translated, I would still forward my 'original' as well.
3 e) Computer Translation have some problems - even technical (see above).
3 f) But, if both parties realise these problems, Computer Translations could of course be used - particularly for 'practical information'

......

Thunderdome,

Donnerwetter - as the Germans would say - at least in the movies,
your posting:
"...Zeg Van,
begin jy nou ook lullig te doen? ....."
was quite a mouthfull!

1) For some peculiar reason my computer/browser/or whatever had problems with the site you referred to. - And any other site I could find dealing with the language.

2) I actually ended up following my own (joking) lead and considered it Dutch with modifications. I tried three Computer Translations. Two of them were very much the same. They all left what they could not handle. One of them did not translate 'Van' - for either a good reason or a bad.
..................
Zeg Van,

begin jy nou ook lullig te doen? Als je iemand, of hele nationaliteiten, wilt beledigen moet je zo gaan beginnen, kun je er donder op zeggen dat je kommentaar krygt.

En dat verdien je dan ook, want een en ander zou je beslist kwalyk genomen kunnen worden, niet alleen door Zweden maar door alle scandinavische landen, gewoon omdat je ze volledig over een kam scheert.
Tot nu toe had ik er geen, of laat ik zeggen in het begin een verkeerd, idee van waar je vandaan komt. Echter, het enkele feit dat je Zweden en Scandinavie lichthartig gelyk stelt aan elkaar, een typisch fenomeen van een Amerikaner, laat gewoon geen twyfel over waar je vandaan komt.
Jouw soort kent alle staten van je eigen land, maar bent volledig verloren als je een paar andere landen op de wereldkaart moet aanwyzen.
Maar laat het je niet verlegen voelen, je eigen president kan het ook niet.
....................
(repeated for your convenience)
>>>>>
Say Van

Begin jy now also pathetically to do? If you someone, or whole nationalities, want insult must you as are to begin, can you it thunder on say that your kommentaar krygt.

And that earn you then also, for a few things will your definite kwalyk taken can become, not only through Sweden only through all scandanavian countries, normally because you she complete over a comb shave. Until now closed had I it no, or let I say in the beginning a been, idea of where you from here comes. However, the single fact, that puts your Sweden and Scandinavie lichthartig gelyk at each other, a typical phenomenon of an Amerikaner, normally no twyfel over where you let from here comes. Your kind all state of your own country, but complete as you lost are knows a few other countries on the world card must aanwyzen. Only let it you not bashfully feel your own president not can it also.
......................
Say of,

beginning nou also lullig jy to do? If you want someone, or complete
nationalities offend, must you this way to will start, thunder can say
you that your bowl driving ear krygt.

And that deserves you thus, because and an other one will decide you
kwalyk be taken is able, not only by Sweden but by all Scandinavian
countries, simply because you entirely shave them concerning a peak.
To now I none, or let there I had say in the beginning a found
oneself, idea of where you come from. However, it some fact that you
Sweden and Scandinavie lichthartig gelyk puts to each other, a typical
phenomenon of Amerikaner, leaves simply no twyfel concerning where you
come from.
Your type knows all states of your own country entirely, but has lost
if you a couple other countries on the world card must aanwyzen.
But you do not let feel timidly, your own president can it also not.

[Thunderdome]

Van,

If your browser says

Thunderdome,

re.
"...Regarding 2 - your Frog, Kraut & Boer combo

[Thunderdome]

Van der Welt?

Nein, wirklich, dass geht nun jetzt zu weit hier.
Du meinst ein Hollander der mit 'ne Deutsche verheiratet ist? Ich meine nur, der nachanme ist eine misschung von der beiden, auf's Deutsch wird es einfach Von der Welt sein. Kapiert?

Und davon geredet, mit 'Elsass-Lothringen' wird wahrscheinlich Lotharingen gemeint? Nahe dran, zugegeben, aber doch leider keine cigarre.

Je pense que les Frogs preferent indiquer 'et voila', pas voila sans et. Mais maintenant je me deplace sur la glace tres mince.
Salut Van

Donderbuis
Ek is uiteindelik terug en sommer met die intrap sien ek dinge is warm! Daai moegoe het natuurlik veel te se oor alles en ek sien hy het ook n eiertjie te le gehad oor ons vorige gesprek.Tipies van hom en sy landsgenote, ne! Hy laat my baie dink aan sy plaaslike naamsgenoot! Ek sien ook dat jy uiteindelik jou ander kopseer aangevat het. Mooi so!

[Thunderdome]

Ja jou bliksem,

moegoe se jy? Ek het nogal gedink die ou is oraait, maar as ek nou die nuwe pos aantik kry ek net sy geswets - daar's vokhol anderste nie.

Jy se jy's trug? Laat waai, hierdie plek is dood.
O, en vannie os oppie jas - tjek my spelling, daar is maar dan ook nie n enkel masjien wat hierrie reg sal vertaal nie.

Watse anner kopseer? Ek het hom mos gese ek ignoreer hom plat, so ek sien nie eens daai gekwyl nie.
Hou jou haaks, of jy nou breek of bou.

Try to open a thread "Why do I think Russian woman should take me for a husband?" See what people got to say. Most of you think that living in Western world is enough for her to get attracted. All of you asking why Russian women want Western husbands,any of you want to answer: "Why do I think I'm good enough for beautiful,educated Russian woman,what makes me so special for her to live her motherland,her culture,everything and everyone she loves and spend the rest of her life with me?"
I agree with this young lady, at least as far as concerning a few of the regulars on this site. I visit this site every now and then and all I see is this incessant whining about "scammers" and how to smell them from a distance, and, oh, how to list them as such (very important!). I also notice that these regulars seem to think that they own this site, and that postings like this one will be met with much indignation and hoo-haa. My suggestion to said people is: Take her advice and realise that if you enter into something like this there are bound to be some risks, and also try to see the picture from the other side. It is nice to be all comfortable in your Western world, where everything is a push of a button away, so appreciate the effort made from the other side.

"Blonde genug"

(extremely funny remark invented by British POWs in Germany sometime during WW2)

To
Thunderdome and Rambouwer/sa

-And, Yes, my language skills are somewhat limited. Also my reference material, unfortunately (includig a German language map of disputed territories...).

-You of course read my use of the word 'drift' the way I intended it (English) - and at the same time saw 'drift' as 'ford across a river' (And that's OK, I do drive a Ford across a river from time to time....)

-And I am a bit of a 'skelm' , but only on a small scale, I'm too much of a coward...

I like the two words 'verkrampte' and 'verligte' - they sort of "paint a picture" of their meanings...

Thunderdome, you picked on my lacklustre spelling of Albert Schweitzer's birthplace, but you did not go into the question.

In which language do you think?

Or, if you prefer another test (I forgot the name):

When you hit your thumb with the hammer, in which language do you swear?

-And, why the !@#$%^&* is that relevant here: Well, it has something to do with cultural identity, which IS relevant here.

re.: "...Nahe dran, zugegeben, aber doch leider keine cigarre..." -Oh so they say that too, there... -It's a small world indeed.

re.: "...Je pense que les Frogs preferent..."
-And quite probably also not to be called Frogs...

AND now we have all had our fun,

1) Having more than one language gives you a slightly different world view (2 or more is good, but 1 + 0.25 is still better than 1) (personally, I don't feel I have any 'one's- perhaps I'm a bear with a small brain [help me with the right quotation here, please], perhaps new knowledge pushes out the old...).
-World view and cultural identity IS relevant...

2) Translation is impossible. (Any Italiens around? The two words 'Translator' and 'Traitor' are the same except for one letter...)
-Therefore to get the full understanding, you must read/hear the information in its original language.

And:
"Blonde genug"
I'm not up to your standard
I'll go away and sit in the corner.

......
PS Thunderdome,
Are you preparing for your

Dictation Test in Gaelic ?

[Thunderdome]

Infomad,

if life would be controlling pushbuttons only I fear we both would not have lived this day, and my nick bears reference here. Fortunately they did away with lots of them, however reinstatements are on the increase it seems.

Yeah, of course a valid point was made by this Guest, but also so utterly logical that basically everybody already knows that, let me re-phrase, should know that when they start.

But, Infomad, your name applies here absolutely perfect.
How do you get your info that this guest is a she, or have an idea of her age? For the same token it could have been posted by a gay relic having survived piloting Spitfire's in WW2 looking for means to supplement his pension by attempting to gather material suited for extortion.
If so - wouldn't it make you mad ?

[sean]

-Would it be harassment to ask which language you think in?
(Albert Schweitzer suggested that to be the test.
I do not remember whether he was from 'Alsace-Loraine' or 'Elsass-Lothringen' [did I spell that right?])
Talking about Schweitzer, "Elsass" would be the right name of the area of his origin. But in 1875 this region was German.

Sean,

Thanks.
Re.: "...Talking about Schweitzer, "Elsass" would be the right name of the area of his origin. But in 1875 this region was German. ..."

So, technically he was born a German.
And grew up in a bi-lingual environment.

His statement, that one 'belongs' to the culture of the language in which one 'thinks' (quoted - very loosely - from memory) may have some validity.

Which, again, may have some relevance here - with respect to moving and with respect to 'cultural belonging'.

..............

[Thunderdome]

Sean,

"in 1875 this region was German"

Was? Past-tense?
You're sure about the past?

[INFANTRY25715]

Has anyone heard of a tranlation agency "Diamond". I started writing to a Jenya in Lugansk and now I have received the messages from that agaency indicating she does not have money for translation services. It seems abit odd to be receiving messages from this agency on her e-mail account. I have to think the worst of poeple but ... .

[Thunderdome]

Infantry,

you sound like someone used to some discipline, hard rules and habits being forced down on you.
You also seem to be computer-literate, and the fact that you write means you're able to read as well.
So here goes:
- read the lot on this forum.
- using a SE find info on Lugansk & Scammers & Women & Russian & etc.
- Draw your own conclusions,

because even an infant can already see where you're headed.

Thunderdome,
-you are your usual supportive, polite self when you write to
INFANTRY25715.

INFANTRY25715,
You ask for advice...
Some people are good at " ...adapt and improvise..." [quoted from memory from an old Eastwood film]....(and feel comfortable with a certain degree of uncertainty...)
Personally, I prefer to have the scenario established 'up front'.
If anybody 'springs surprises' on me, I:
1) get upset
2) suspect foul play

(-and if no actual person is responsible for the surprise, I still do not like it..)

.............
Personally, I would also feel uneasy playing 'Chinese Whispers' with a translation agency in the middle!

[baddog]

http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif Well I went to Kiev and met the lady in the original post I made. I meet her daughter to and had a wonderful time. I must say having read a lot of things I was ready for the worst. The only thing that was bad on my trip was my initial paranoia. I had a few days after she left and even wondered around the city by my self with out being able to speak any Russian or Ukrainian. If any one is interested in the details let me know.
I will say from my meeting though, not all the people in Lugansk are out to get you and some are who they say they are.

Wow, I'm impressed, disguest, upset...and definitely not going to keep quite!
First of all back to the original topic, I'm originally from Ukraine, Lugansk myself. And a couple of ears ago I was myself in the possition where you guys are now.

[MartinUK]

Anna,
Welcome to the site, your input and comments are greatly appreciated and I'm sure will arouse much interest and questions from other guys on this site.
Anna, it is agreed there are many stupid men around, stupid jerks that may send or ask for naked photo's, yes we know about them and we ignore them.
Speaking from personal observation and experience and one only has to look at www.atareks.com , and just incase this site bans the posting of that address it is atareks dot com.
There you will find very many ladies from Lugansk and towns and villages in the Lugansk region. I can GUARANTEE that all those ladies, will within the first few letters explain that she uses the services of an interpreter, probably $5 per letter, $10 per exchange of letters and however she may word it, the guy is expected to pay. Furthermore, many of these letters will be 'canned', pre-written and stored on a computer or disc, not written personally nor answering questions, mere name changes for which she is asking the guy to pay for a translation that has not taken place.
Whilst I'm sure there are genuine ladies such as yourself in Lugansk a guy, who can only take perhaps 3 weeks from his work each year to make expensive trips should, if he has any sense, be minimising the risk of meeting the wrong type of lady, with the unfortunate reputation Lugansk has earned itself I for one would not visit a lady, nor send money to, a lady from Lugansk and I apologise if this offends you.
A question that is often asked, if a lady earns $50 a month then why does she enter into correspondence at a cost of $10 per exchange of letters? That lady is entering into something which she simply cannot afford wheras an internet cafe, at $1 per hour is something more affordable.
I have never been scammed by an agency, they tried but failed! I will not use an agency because letters are personal between the lady and myself, I would not want an agency reading or writing them and I would want to be sure the letters were coming from my lady and not products of an agency at $5 a time.
It is interesting that you operate an agency yourself and you say that no sincere lady will go to an internet cafe to correspond however I disagree, I know of many sincere ladies who use internet cafes and it is common knowledge that a truly sincere lady will not ask a man for money.
You also criticise the supposed poor translation available, again I disagree, my current lady uses a computer at her work, she writes in Russian and uses an online translator, we have very little problem understanding each other.
Anna, whilst your post and comments are appreciated you have spoilt it somewhat because you have turned it into a commercial post promoting your agency and it does occur to me, would you still have the same points of view were you to operate an internet cafe rather than an agency?
Martin

[nemez]

1. Their own site
2. Will always truly state their rules and conditions, prices
3. Will have their contact information on a site
4. Will have at least a couple of payment options.
5. they are not from uk or usa

btw if i want to buy a ticket for airplan or train, i would ask a travel agency in ua. 160$ for roundtrip ;-))). never more then 100 $!! 60% booking fee is a good deal ;-)

[MartinUK]

6. Will advertise their agency & services in a recognised manner.

[Nataliya]

Wow, I'm impressed, disguest, upset...and definitely not going to keep quite!
No need to keep quiet. You're welcome to post your views,experiences and opinions. However, in future please refrain from advertising your own agency/site, commercial posts are not allowed. Any further ads will be deleted.

[Patrick]

Hey Martin,

I am confussed. Are you saying that the web site you gave is a scam base?? If so let us hear more. No one but you seems to answer any questions around here..Cheers Patrick

[MartinUK]

Patrick,
All I know if that scammers target particular sites. Many will target international sites such as Yahoo, Love Town etc. etc. etc.
It is clearly obvious the Lugansk scammers (and others) target the atareks site. Test it out, find the youngest, most beautiful lady on there (from Lugansk region, some town or village in Ukraine you've never heard of). Write her a mundane boring letter and I bet you'll get a reply within 24 hours or so.

[baddog]

Patrick,
All I know if that scammers target particular sites. Many will target international sites such as Yahoo, Love Town etc. etc. etc.
It is clearly obvious the Lugansk scammers (and others) target the atareks site. Test it out, find the youngest, most beautiful lady on there (from Lugansk region, some town or village in Ukraine you've never heard of). Write her a mundane boring letter and I bet you'll get a reply within 24 hours or so.
Eh? Bull-pucky.. I ran in to my girl on yahoo. After a little time lurking here I began to think I was being scammed, particularly because she came from Lugansk.

[MartinUK]

Baddog,
Has it been said that everyone from Lugansk is a scammer?

[baddog]

No, just implied.