Bad habits

[Nataliya]

In the profiles everyone is looking for someone without bad habits, but in the profiles itself (at least freepersonals) there's no mentioning of the fact if girl's got one- like for example that she smokes. My question is- if you like the girl and you've been corresponding with her for a while, but later you discover that she's a smoker- what are you going to do?

Are you going to ask her to quit if you don't smoke? Would you look for compromise, like she can do it outside and have some chewing gum after to kill the smell? Or would you drop her and look for a none smoker?

Also same question applies to men. If she doesn't smoke, but you do. Are you going to try and quit? Smoke outside and brush your teeth every time you want to kiss her?! Would not change anything and make her suffer? Or else?

I found it quite "painful" and important subject. Would really like to hear what others think about that.

[corneo]

Most likely if a person is with you (and you are a smoker) they will work with you on this subject. If they hold negative feelings against a smoker that's a sign of a self center person who most people won't deal with anyway. If all relationships there is a give and take, not a one way (my way) ordeal.

Most of the people I have met that are totally against smoking (or any other bad public habit) have personal problems they are running from and need a outlet to blame there problems on, instead of correcting there own problems.

Cancer cures Smoking.

corneo
writes:
"....If all relationships there is a give and take, not a one way (my way) ordeal....."

-The question: "Do you mind if I smoke?"
should actually be:
"Do you mind if I give you Cancer?"

Nataliya
asks:

".....Are you going to ask her to quit if you don't smoke?....."

1) No, the physical withdrawal symptoms from nicotine addiction can be rather severe, and :
- a) most people simply cannot stop smoking
- b) there is no guaranty that she will not be tempted to start again
- c) the un-pleasantness of stopping will be a strain on the relationship
- d) her life-expectancy would have been reduced anyway if she has been a smoker for some years


2) So, before there *is* a relationship I would make sure that I did not invest time and money in 'getting to know' a smoker.

Nataliya
writes:
"....I found it quite "painful" and important subject. Would really like to hear what others think about that....."

1) The heart diseases and cancers are actually quite literally painful...

2) In a world that is already poluted in many ways why should I add a polutant (tobacco smoke) which would multiply many of the risk factors?

3) Smoking around children is Child Abuse!

[corneo]

Thanks Van82 for your liberal and tree hugging ideas on smoking, now do something different and answer the question asked.

"My question is- if you like the girl and you've been corresponding with her for a while, but later you discover that she's a smoker- what are you going to do? "

[Nataliya]

[QUOTE= (Guest @ Dec. 28 2003,08:59)]".....Are you going to ask her to quit if you don't smoke?....."

1) No, the physical withdrawal

[Nataliya]

Cancer cures Smoking.
1) The heart diseases and cancers are actually quite literally painful...

2) In a world that is already poluted in many ways why should I add a polutant (tobacco smoke) which would multiply many of the risk factors?

3) Smoking around children is Child Abuse!

I'm sure we all know that. I'm also not trying to set antismoking or smoking campaign here. We're talking about dating and profiles. I've found mentioning of this particular bad habit as a big problem for some people, that's why trying to get some different views on it, not how bad it is, but how one is planning to deal with it?

[corneo]

When I was in Russia, I didn't see any no smoking signs. The airport had a smoking area, but did not post no smoking in the building. Which tells me smoking is aloud by the public.
It seems that anti-smoking is a America obsession only. Come to think of it, at of all the countries I've been to, America is the only country that freaks out on smoking.
So I can see why a FSU dating site wouldn't ask the question about smoking. (It's not a issue to them.)

Nataliya,
corneo,

Re. What would I do if I discover she is a smoker?

1) As mentioned before, the question about smoking is in my view an important one, therefore, I see it as a question that should be asked 'up front' (if it is not part of the profile). I would point out to her that my lungs, throat and eyes apparently tolerate tobacco smoke far less well than what applies to the average person.
If it turns out later that she actually does smoke she would have lied to me. She would also show disregard for my health, if she continues to smoke where I am. -Of course, she could try to stop for my sake, however, as I have explained before, there are certain problems. It would be much better if she had never smoked or had stopped successfully some time ago.

2) So, what would I do if we met and I discovered that she had lied to me?
I don't know.
I would probably start thinking about whether she would be honest about Herpes, Hepatitis, Chlamydia, etc....
Doubts which could be somewhat damaging to the relationship...

3) Alcoholism and over-use of alcohol is probably not the same. (pedantic side-remark).
- a) Some doctors actually suggests that one or two drinks a day could be good for your heart.
- b) Too much alcohol will over time damage the liver (some people have a very 'strong' liver and can continue drinking until their brain is permanently 'pickled' [or whatever])
- c) A more immediate problem is that drunk people do stupid things...
- d) However, in this context: Problem drinking is something people are aware of here...

Nataliya, many people try to stop smoking, but cannot. Nicotine addiction is very real. (It has something to do with brain chemistry). And very few people can stop using drugs for similar reasons. (They need treatment in a clinic).

Yes, life is full of risks. Some, I take, some I don't want to take. And I do not like other people forcing me...
Re. Polution: Yes, there is enough. Why should I want to add more? (the water I drink, the food I eat, the air I breathe - it's all full of rubbish, I do not want any more...)

corneo, Thanks for the warning about smoking in Russia.

...........
So, I have not really answered Nataliya's question.
Because I see the issue as important, I see it as a 'piece of information' that needs to be communicated 'up front'.
After that it becomes a matter of trust and 'truthfulness'

[Nataliya]

1) As mentioned before, the question about smoking is in my view an important one, therefore, I see it as a question that should be asked 'up front' (if it is not part of the profile). I would point out to her that my lungs, throat and eyes apparently tolerate tobacco smoke far less well than what applies to the average person.


1) It is an

[Nataliya]

When I was in Russia, I didn't see any no smoking signs. The airport had a smoking area, but did not post no smoking in the building. Which tells me smoking is aloud by the public.
It seems that anti-smoking is a America obsession only. Come to think of it, at of all the countries I've been to, America is the only country that freaks out on smoking.
So I can see why a FSU dating site wouldn't ask the question about smoking. (It's not a issue to them.)

In some places it is allowed, and before it was allowed everywhere, but not any more, slowly it

[corneo]

I would work with them to stop smoking. If I spent a lot of money to meet her I must have hope towards marring her. If I found out she was a smoker, this would be a matter we would have to talk about and see if she would stop. Of course if she refuses, our relationship is most likely over.

Drinking and drug are a totally different subject. a smoker has never bug me.

I have never met a person without some type of flaw to them selves. The real question is can you live with there flaws. Weather it will be a smoker or a person with a physical abnormality. (large nose, big ears, strange eyes, large feet....)

[Nataliya]

I would work with them to stop smoking. If I spent a lot of money to meet her I must have hope towards marring her. If I found out she was a smoker, this would be a matter we would have to talk about and see if she would stop. Of course if she refuses, our relationship is most likely over.

Drinking and drug are a totally different subject. a smoker has never bug me.

I have never met a person without some type of flaw to them selves. The real question is can you live with there flaws. Weather it will be a smoker or a person with a physical abnormality. (large nose, big ears, strange eyes, large feet....)
Thanks corneo.

As to "physical abnormalities", ones you've listed I wouldn't call that. LOL I don't think you love person for her small nose ot tiny feet- takes more then that for the lasting union, don't you think?!

Nataliya
asks:
"......2) Are you going to ask her for past medical records? Those are not the prettiest diseases, not everyone would be brave enough to disclose it. Except- Hepatitis you can get accidentally from infected needle, not person's fault. Also what about other diseases- any of them she might have had in the past, are you going to ask for that too in your letters? Don't you think that most women find you weird?......"

1) I would not like to ask those questions. (The immigration department would probably ask....)

2) If we trusted each other and cared about each other I would hope it was not necessary..

3) If I discovered that she had lied to me about smoking, however, I would not be so sure about the 'trusting' and the 'caring' any more. (but then again I could not be sure about a truthful answer, so there would be no reason for asking....)

4) "...Fault...." has nothing to do with it.

5) If I made my view on smoking clear and she ignored it, I could not be sure she would 'look after my best interests' in other matters - including health.

6) I did not think (until now anyway) that most women find me weird.

7) Perhaps I did not express myself well enough. I do not intend to ask her for past medical records. If she cared about me, it would not be necessary to ask. And if she did not care, she would not answer truthfully...

8) It all 'boils down to' a matter of mutual trust.

Nataliya
writes:
"...3) To be pedantic those 1-2 drinks a day you're referring to- must be red wine....."

-I think you are right.

Nataliya
It is good question, I used to smoke before but stopped 18 months ago, so I'm still stopping really.
For this reason I look for lady that doesn't smoke, because I don't want to start again, or have the encouragement to start again.
However if she smoked I would find it hard to condemn her, because I've been there myself.
I think I would try to be as understanding as possible, none of us is perfect, but I guess its difficult, depends on the two people involved.

If the woman is non smoker, how will she feel if the guy turns up to be a smoker? is that going to be seen as very deceitful on the part of the man? or do I generalise too much?

Skooter
writes:
"....If the woman is non smoker, how will she feel if the guy turns up to be a smoker?......"

If she feels that this is an important issue, she should make sure to bring the question up early.

-so there is no surprise.......

.................
That actually goes for all important issues.

[Nataliya]

I would not like to ask those questions. (The immigration department would probably ask....)
If we trusted each other and cared about each other I would hope it was not necessary.
I did not think (until now anyway) that most women find me weird.

Perhaps I did not express myself well enough. I do not intend to ask her for past medical records. If she cared about me, it would not be necessary to ask. And if she did not care, she would not answer truthfully...

It all 'boils down to' a matter of mutual trust.
Actually the immigration will request her medical examination, at least for US. Not sure about Europe- when I left, no one requested anything.

In that case I'm more weired then you. LOL I'd ask for HIV test for sure, providing mine in return of course, doesn't matter how weird some people might think I am.

Nataliya
writes:

"..............
Actually the immigration will request her medical examination, at least for US. Not sure about Europe- when I left, no one requested anything.

In that case I'm more weired then you. LOL I'd ask for HIV test for sure, providing mine in return of course, doesn't matter how weird some people might think I am.

How would you know if she cares?
...."

1) Medical examination: Interesting question - why are there such differences?
-From Typhoid Mary to SARS - it all shows that it is a very good idea to 'keep an eye on things' before they get out of hand.

2) HIV test. Good idea. My brain says Yes. My heart says No.
(Or in other words: My Logic says Yes, My feelings say No).

You have all the characteristics of a survivor.

3) How would I know if she cares: I am a very bad judge of character, so, I would not. I would fool myself to believe what I want to believe.
-Which is just one of my problems.

.....................
-But, if she blatantly lied and/or ignored what I had said/written, I would know she did not care...

-Quite apart from Bad Habits there are other important issues that should be 'cleared up' early.

(Yes, I know I am 'derailing' the topic from Bad Habits to Important Issues, but the 'common denominator' is: "Things to discuss early")

One such issue is Children. Pregnancy. Fertility.

If she wants children and he has had a vasectomy, it is probably considerate of him to tell her. Before they get too involved....

[Nataliya]

HIV test. Good idea. My brain says Yes. My heart says No.
(Or in other words: My Logic says Yes, My feelings say No).
Pretty much my heart and my brain say the same.

[Nataliya]

-Quite apart from Bad Habits there are other important issues that should be 'cleared up' early.

(Yes, I know I am 'derailing' the topic from Bad Habits to Important Issues, but the 'common denominator' is: "Things to discuss early")

One such issue is Children. Pregnancy. Fertility.

If she wants children and he has had a vasectomy, it is probably considerate of him to tell her. Before they get too involved....
Sure, it's important and should be discussed beforehand.

Just for the info- vasectomy is reversible, you have lesser chance, but you have pretty good one.

If she has a problem to conceive- there's always treatments, proven to be quite successful, science is very powerful nowadays.

In the worst scenario if both want children, but can't have them due to the health conditions- there's always an adoption.

The bottom line, I'd say be honest, discuss as much as you can, ask questions- there's no such thing as too many questions http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Make sure you really understand each other and your life plans before you

Nataliya
writes:
"......Pretty much my heart and my brain say the same. ......"

-You are of course - again - totally right.

And I did not express myself the right way. When I referred to 'feelings' I was wrong. It is just that I am such a coward, who tries to avoid akward or embarassing situations....

Nataliya
writes:

"..................The bottom line, I'd say be honest, discuss as much as you can, ask questions- there's no such thing as too many questions Make sure you really understand each other and your life plans before you

-On the note of Bad Habits:
I found the following in a Forum using the Cyrillic alphabet.
The translation is by machine.
I apologise for taking it out of context, but i find the quotation interesting.

(She is describing a foreign man...)

"....It so is well-groomed, tidy and fresh ALWAYS! Culture of a feed, culture of a body (it constantly supported the physical form various kinds of sports... Instead of as the majority of our men to fill in to a drink beer and to let grow a disgusting stomach fumigating itself also nicotine). ..."

[Nataliya]

-On the note of Bad Habits:
I found the following in a Forum using the Cyrillic alphabet.
The translation is by machine.
I apologise for taking it out of context, but i find the quotation interesting.

(She is describing a foreign man...)

"....It so is well-groomed, tidy and fresh ALWAYS! Culture of a feed, culture of a body (it constantly supported the physical form various kinds of sports... Instead of as the majority of our men to fill in to a drink beer and to let grow a disgusting stomach fumigating itself also nicotine). ..."
http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif That's really funny translation, literally. LOL Do you mind to paste the Russian description of it?! Although I think I understand what she means, but actually that could be reffered to the man of any nationality.

[Nataliya]

OK I've found it. But from your translation it's hard to understand what she meant. In fact she was fascinated by the French man who she had an affair with and she couldn't believe that such men exist. She compared him to FSU men (either in general or ones she dealt with) and she describes the qualities, habits that this French man possess that she does not believe average Russian man has.

Here it is: "

Nataliya
writes:
".....OK I've found it......."

Good.
And, of course, your translation is much better.

I quoted it because she expressed an opinion about Russian men.

-and I - kind of - liked the use of the word "fumigating"
http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif