Friendly Advice Needed

[66 Fasty Man]

I have only had contact with a few woman from both Russia and Ukraine. The first contact was a scammer. How do I know this? I was doing research on the net about Russain woman and checked out my first black list. There she was with numerous names. I learned my lesson and did a lot of research before contacting any more women. I had communication with a couple that were alright but not really what I was looking for. I have been in contact for the last 5 months with a woman from the Ukraine. I have seen pictures of her and her children, and they are all very classy photos, nothing revealing. I have spoken to her on the phone with the help of an interpreter. Her oldest son does speak and understand some English. Since her very first response to me I can tell that she reads every word of my letters and always responds to the questions I ask. She has her own computer at home with a translation program. I have offered money to her many times and she would never accept it, however, at her holiday I was very persistant on sending her a little money so she may buy herself and the two boys a gift so I may be represented with them at thier holiday. She did finally accept the money but with much hesitation. To me she is a great woman and my interests are genuine. I plan for my first trip this coming April or May. Does this sound too good to be true? I have recently read all the horror stories and just wonder if there is a red flag that I'm missing. Thanks for any advice

66 Fasty Man

[corneo]

Sounds like you have a great friend. May it blossom to something better. The money thing, don't let it get to you. Instead of saying here is some free money.
Try would you buy a gift for your children from me if I send you the money? Then add I didn't know how much it will cost, so keep the change as your charge for helping me. Just a idea.

[chgoboy]

Don't worry...you're doing OK with this one. OF COURSE you hear the horror stories. It's like watching the 6 o clock news....the BAD stories are what you are going to hear about. I go to Russia every 8 weeks for business and I have met some of the most intelligent, warm, honest, sweet, GENUINE women I've ever known. They are TERRIFIC! Are there scammers? Sure. And we don't have that in America? Get real. The thing to remember is that we've been trained by the best...American women. Anyone with their eyes open and an ounce of self-confidence and self-esteem can spot them a mile away in Russia. They are SO obvious....unless you are blind and so desperate that you don't have any common sense. They ASK for money; they ASK you to put minutes on their mobile phone; they ASK to go to the most expensive restaurant; they ASK you to take them shopping; they tell you about a sick relative or a horrible landlord, or needing to go to the doctor....OR that they have a friend that can get them a visa to come visit you. But this is the EXCEPTION. Stats show that 10% are after your money. Compare THAT to the USA. I've never had one woman in Russia ask me on a first date (or 20th)what kind of car I drive or how much I earn. Ahem......now tell me that happens here in the good ol' USA......ya gotta have a financial statement to have coffee here. Russian gals want to know about your family, your education, your friends, not your $$. The other thing to be aware of when writing to them is....if they get VERY friendly and romantic...very fast. That IS NOT the way they are. Generally speaking they are very conservative. If you get a letter saying "You are my fantasy, you are my life, I had a dream of you last night, I can't wait to be a part of your life, I wrote you a romantic poem as I was in my bed last night, I see rainbows and sunshine now that your are in my life......RUN!! Run like your butt is on fire and the closest water is a mile away. THIS IS NOT THE WAY THEY ARE. Yes later on in a relationship....they are very passionate women for the most part, but not after two, or three or even eight LETTERS. C'mon. Use common sense. They are banking (no pun) on the fact that some guys are desperate, lonely people that will fall for this. And every day some poor slob does.

[66 Fasty Man]

Thanks CHGOBOY! I have a real good feeling about this girl. After 5 months of 1 to 2 letters a day. She has yet to mention love. She does tell me that she writes to no other man now but she does receive letters from other men. She has sent me a few of the letters and I can't blame her for not answering. They are pretty straight forward in regards to what the man is looking for. Sexual positions, please send nude photos, etc. You know what i'm getting at. It surprises me that these women would want contact with american men at all considering some of the comments that are made in the letters they get. It has taken her a long while to really open up to her living situation. I know it may be difficult for a divorced woman with two children to have a great life but she does not complain. She is the opposite of what most of the so called scammers are about. I offer to send flowers and she tells me not to waste the money, that my letters and words are more beautiful than flowers and they will stay with her forever. You are right about women in the U.S. being scammers. I was married to one for 14 years. The biggest scam of my life! Thanks again for the input.

66 Fasty Man

[MartinUK]

66,
As a rule of thumb, if you want to write to a 21 y/o & beautiful single lady then you are putting yourself in the high risk category.
Of course, this risk decreases with her age, appearance and most definately children. I'm not suggesting your lady is old nor unattractive but certainly with children, you have put yourself into the lower risk category and from what you say it seems you have a genuine lady.
It is a matter of self respect to a genuine lady not to accept money from someone like yourself however I guess she finally accepted because you described it as a gift for the children rather than a donation of money.
Interesting to read what you say about those other letters and of course we understand that the world is full of Jerks. My current lady was honest enough to tell me she is/was writing with 2 other guys but went on to say that my letters were best.
Of course, many a lady will say such a thing because it is what a man likes to hear but this lady is genuine and sincere. I don't consider myself anything special but I am serious and I'm sure that comes across in my letters and reading what you say, I'm perhaps beginning to understand why my letters were best.
It seems like you have a genuine lady thus good luck to you. Would be interested to learn where in UA your lady is from, my lady is also from UA but from a small town in the middle of nowhere, I'm off there in April.
Martin

[66 Fasty Man]

Hello MartinUK, Lena is very beautiful. She is 33 y.o. and lives in Belgorod-Dnestrovsky. At first, she did write to more men than just me, but now i'm fairly certain that I am her only interest. She has met with a few men over the years but has never found a man who is interested in more than sex and a tour guide. The men come. take advantage and then faintly stay in communication, then just lose interest. I guess because I am truly looking for love, she can sense this in my letters. I told her that I would never require sex from her before marraige and if there is truly love in both of our hearts, all else will be fine. As for scammer, Yes, some are named Boris and have beards. Some are brutal and intentional in thier methods but some are subtle. I never thought of the types of communication some of these ladies must received until Lena shared a couple of them with me. It is no wonder that some of these ladies may be inclined to take advantage as they are disrespected over and over again by men who have no ethics. I suppose if I were in thier shoes, I would get tired of such letters and eventually cave in to the temptation as it may be the only thing I find in this life. They get no respect from men in thier own country and now they are bombarded by letters from men abroad that offer no more than what they can receive at home.

I do have one concern. She tells me that when I visit that she would prefer for me not to come to her city. She says that it is small, with no decent hotel but most important is that if certain people learn of our communication or see that she is with an American, that it could put her and her children in danger. She suggests that we meet in Odessa for the first couple of days and she will bring her boys with her so I can meet them. Then she will take the boys to her girlfriends and we can either spend more time in Odessa or travel to a larger city so we may spend time together. Odessa is close to her and I don't have a problem going there and I'm sure that Kiev would be a beautiful city to see. I have talked to both of her sons on the phone. The oldest boy is 13 and I also receive an e-mail about once a week from him. He learns English in school and now by my request, he helps Lena learn some english. Hey, it's a start. The youngest boy is 5 and he still doesn't talk much as he is too young and Lena doesn't tell him much of me yet as he may tell others of me and she Is very selective on who she talks to about me. I guess my question is: Do situations exist in small towns like where she lives that people may actually try to extort money or cause harm to a woman if she communicates with Western men? I would never want to put her in danger. I'll stop babling now and wait for the next response. Thanks all for your input!

66 Fasty Man

[MartinUK]

Hey 66,
Your and my lady are not that far from each other, mine is to the south of yours. Do you realise that, by road, to get from Odessa to your lady's city you enter Moldovia for approx 10km. It's OK, they don't check passports or visa's.
With regard to endangering her children etc. I can only best advise you to communicate with Nataliya on this site. Nataliya is a great girl, very wise in the ways of the world, she is Russian but has relations in UA, I'm sure she won't mind if you send her a private message.
Odessa is cool if you go at the right time of year, great for sitting on beaches etc. I'm flying there in April but immediately travelling by road to my lady's city.
I'm not sure if you have been to FSU before but rather than a hotel, which are damn expensive, would suggest renting an apartment, then you could accommodate the children also.
Martin

[Patrick]

Hey 66,
Sounds like you have found a keeper. It is a good thing to have found and I wish you much happiness and have a good trip...Cheers Patrick

[66 Fasty Man]

Thanks Patrick! and thanks to you too Martin!! I meant to say an apartment. I have done some research on this matter as well. My lady's best friend of 15 years now resides in Floriday. She has been here for 2 1/2 years. She has been very helpful in translation problems and her husband who has been through all of this has also been very helpful in preparing me for what is yet to come. He has put me in contact with some of the resources that he used while he was there. I guess when it is meant to be, all the clouds part and it all just falls together. Thanks again for your comments.

66 Fasty Man http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Thunderdome]

FM66,

No, I haven't heard about extortion yet, but people pointing at you is hardly pleasant. The kids at school could also be acted against, and you simply would not want to be the cause all of this.
Especially in smaller communities women are discriminated against when it becomes common knowledge she's friendly with foreigners or looking for one. If you'd visit her in her hometown such news would spread fast hence her request, and be glad she is honest about it. But eh, you should have know this I think, do some searching.
The obvious solution is the one you've agreed on, one can 'get lost' easier in a bigger city first of all, but also it's not too close to her homeground.

[MartinUK]

Thunderdome,
OK, I've been to FSU a few times but only to big cities. I'm off again in April, but this lady lives in a small city, if I recall correctly, the population is 22,500.
Have you actually been to such a smaller city yourself, how did you feel there. OK, my lady is single, well divorced actually, do you believe there will be the scenario whereas people look at us differently in the street or what else may I expect?
This lady is the sort that I can ask anything, I think I might run this past her.

[66 Fasty Man]

Thunderdome,

The extortion was the extreme of the possible scenarios and mostly pointed at her ex-husband. The children at school were also mentioned. I have done some research but I get a mixed bag of nuts. Some say it is better to see her where she lives and some say that she may feel threatened in her home town. I have even read that in some towns, the people welcome you but I do have a great deal of trust in her and I will respect her wishes in this matter. Life for her is difficult enough and there is no need to add more problems. I have also read that in many cases, the woman wants to make sure that the love and compatability are strong before they bring that man to thier city. Another important fact of this lady is that she has no living family other than her sons and since they may travel with her, there is no one really close to her that it is necessary to meet or introduce myself to.

Thanks for your insight thunderdome,

66 Fasty Man

[MartinUK]

66,
Americans from another website always say to meet a lady in her home city for merely scammer detection purposes. It is almost definate that they, when saying that, haven't taken into consideration a factor such as we are discussing now.
Perhaps in her mind, she may be thinking that everybody will see her with you and if things don't work out between you then she has to go through it with another guy and perhaps another etc. I think, in such a scenario, we can all imagine what people in her city will be saying about her.
Perhaps meeting in Odessa may be considered the 'softly softly' approach. Perhaps she wants to see that you are serious, suitable and compatable before considering you a serious boyfriend with whom she will subsequently have no objection of being seen in public with.
It is often said to look for the lady in the small rather than the large city and whilst one can't generalize regarding different mentalities perhaps here you are seeing a small town mentality.
As mentioned earlier, my lady is also from a small city and I am noticing a different mentality. This could be because she is 100% sincere but it could also reflect the small town thing also.
Only yesterday I asked her what her father drank because I wanted to bring with me a small gift for each of her parents. She told me this was superfluous and I subsequently had to politely insist she tell me what her father drinks.
Unlike the previous big city lady, she was only too willing to tell me precisely what chocolates her mother liked and what perfume she liked.!

FM66


This is basically what I sent to guy with similar concerns in a parallel forum:
First I

[Thunderdome]

Martin,

no, big city only. But I read it somewhere and it just makes logical sense, especially when the visit's outcome is hardly guaranteed and she might have to go through this again, or already has.
Yeah, asking her I think's not a bad idea, especially also when her answer will tell you more about her personality. But even when she brushes it aside, maybe you're a Gent and suggest you meet in the nearby city anyway? Same difference but for the lack of unpleasant consequences for her. City and Village mentalities differ all over the world.


FM66,

sure people will be nice to you, singular and plural form, it only might affect her when you're gone again rendering you helpless, and inevitably you'll have to return.
What you read makes sense doesn't it, after all it's just a first date, and keep in mind that children are involved as well. Dunno who you are Fasty, but I'd brace myself for more visits if all goes well, and they better be of a longer nature. I'm sure when she feels comfortable with you she'll invite you to her home, wait & see, but I agree that such is important as it will tell you more about her, well, them in this case.
Wish you well.


Jason,

by the looks of things you did the whole rigmarole up to 'got the T-shirt' - treat it with care, you'll never get a re-print http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Always nice to be able to say, in retrospect, that you were lucky here & there, although I suppose that goes for everybody to a certain extent, the women included.
Your story addresses some valid points I'm sure some will take to heart, and especially your closing lines I can find myself with.
Cheers, have a good one.

[Nataliya]

FM 66- Belgorod Dnestrovskiy is not so small and it's one of the richest in culture and history of Ukraine. It is 2500 years old and has being through quite a few wars and political disputes, that's why it's famous for it's fortress, temples, port, churches- "presents" from different cultures (Greek, Italian, Tatar...) I would assume it should be some decent hotels there since the city is listed in every tourist agency in Ukraine.

However, I think your lady is worried about her ex and his reaction and she should. If you two get serious and plan to relocate to US- you'd need her ex's permission to take the kids out of the country. A lot of Russian men (actually fathers of any nation) react really bad to such news and will cause a lot of problems, so probably she doesn't want him to know about you until it is absolutely necessary. The more time he has to get prepared- the longer court procedures are going to last- till it's over- kids won't be able to join their mother.

Small town talk- honestly I don't know what is 33 y.o woman with two kids has to worry about. She is allowed to date men, isn't she? Unless she's really sensitive to gossips.

Anyway, Odessa is very beautiful city with plenty of sights and entertainments, I'm sure you'll have a great time there.

[liam]

G'day,

Regarding small towns and villages in russia/easterneurope: I've never specifically travelled to a small town or village in any of these areas to meet a girl, but as a poor hitch-hiker travelling around eastern europe for about a year i often found myself in small provincial towns and tiny villages in rural poland, romania and bulgaria. To be honest i felt safer than i ever did hanging out in manchester, even when a lot of these towns were simply grim concrete blocks and after 6 at night the whole towns were dead. Even though i was'nt exactly wearing an armarni suit i stuck-out like a sore thumb, people would look at me , stare, whatever. In the space of one year i got seriously hassled only a few times (and even then if i'd kept my mouth shut and turned the other cheek these situations would'nt have got as silly as they did) and these were nearly always because of drunken behaviour in bars which you can get in any town anywhere on earth. I enjoyed the hospitality of heaps and heaps of strangers simply by keeping an open mind and being kind and generous in return. Nearly all the people i meet in rural small towns were just absolutley fascinated to meet a european and often could'nt believe that i was in there town or country. Everyone was sensitive about there living conditions , socio-economic status as opposed to where i was from and went to huge extravagent lengths in an attempt to show wealth or prosperity and it would be a serious no no to take the piss out of hard working people, living lifes of quite shocking poverty (compared to my fully normal english working class life) simply because there governments are totally and utterly corrupt. I met a lot of people who could've been great friends for life in a different situation, lots of girls liked me, but outside of the big cities they definately were'nt gonna *put-out* and seemed to have more morals than the girls back home.
I have heard stories of local girls in small towns being given a hard time when the big silly yank with a giant camera and bright yellow tracksuit turns up though. And there are true stories about guys who have been scammed to get to russia, picked up at the airport by relatives of the supposed girl and then tortured till a big amount of cash is handed over. But there rare. And i really would'nt worry about it. If you come across gypsies give them a wide birth, and when giant boris wants to fight you after 10 beers leave wherever you are fast (if you beat him his friends will do you anyway). As for the mafia, i saw a heap of them as often these were the only people in the resturants, bars (cos they were the only ones with money), they did'nt seem at all interested in robbing a poor hitch-hiker when theres millions of dollars to be made in selling drugs, girls and weopens, whatever. Where-ever you are on earth there will always be some nasty psycho's who wanna rip you of or simply smash you for a laugh. But i can honsetly say i met a million times more of them growing up in northern england than i ever did travelling throught eastern europe.

Liam

[nemez]

there live about 80.000 people. a women from www.***.ru has writen to me yesterday ;-).
http://old-fort.by.ru/russian.html
http://tira2500.org (very good)

[MartinUK]

Having said my lady was the sort that I could ask anything I thought I had better put my money where my mouth is so I asked her about the attitude I could expect towards me in her small town, this is her reply:

You ask, how people will consider you? We shall communicate with people
which I love and which love me. Hence, they wish me is kind also
happiness. If I shall be happy with you, they will grow fond of you as well
as me. You have nothing to worry.

Hey Martin, I would assume that the loved ones (family)would treat you great for no other reason but respect for your lady. But in my case, she has no living family, only her children which I already have a decent relationship with the oldest boy. A few of her friends know of me, but these are only very close friends to her. She is the manager of a fish warehouse and all that work under her are men. From what I gather, there is very little respect for her there. Comments and actions that take place there would surely be considered sexual harrasment here in the states, but there, no one really speaks of them. Her ex-husband does not live in this city and has not had contact with her for over 2 years but he knows some of the men that work there and her greatest fear is that he would find out and make things difficult for her. I think since she has no one close there for me to meet, she would feel more comfortable meeting in a different city as she can bring the boys with her. Probably after the first meeting, she will feel more comfortable with me and may allow me to visit her. I am sure the first meeting will be like opening up an encyclopedia and the brain will be overloaded with information. Does anyone have a first meeting experience they would like to share. It might help me to prepare for mine!

Thanks everyone!!

66 Fasty Man

[MartinUK]

66,
My lady is talking about her friends. Regarding her family, she is an only child and she was afraid to tell her parents at first. She has since told them about me and whilst the parents, somewhat begrudgingly give their approval they do not believe 2 people can develop relations in letters.

I'm presuming this is your first lady meeting 66. I, if I recall correctly, have had 8 such first meetings. You can't really prepare for it and to this day I still do not have a standard greeting whether it be a handshake, a kiss on the cheek, a full blown kiss or just some bodily contact. Every situation seems to be different, you just have to go with what you believe to be right given the situation.

[chgoboy]

FM66.....the old saying is: The fastest way anywhere is to take it nice and slow. Remember that she has probably heard some warnings and horror stories about guys from here.....just like guys have heard about scammers over there. Throw in a completely different culture...and a language difference and it is NOT your typical situation. The good news is, it can be the time of your life. Odds are you'll be walkin' about 2 feet above the pavement. It'll be fine. Especially if you go in relaxed with an open mind. If you have the attitude that you're just going to enjoy yourself no matter what, you will BE more relaxed and it'll all flow easily. I can understand her being hesitant at first about meeting in her smaller home town . It's a lot of pressure for her. And the guys can have an attitude of "They're coming over here for our women". Just like eveywhere, people like to talk and everybody knows everything about everybody in a small town. If it all "clicks" she'll soon be more comfortable with the idea of having you visit her town. I've been there. They want to know where things stand before they really have you on their daily "home turf" and everyone knowing. Understandable. So go. Get to know her and the kids. Spend quality time. These gals are really terrific. ~Dan~

Hey Dan, Thanks for that reassurance. That's pretty much what I had planned to do. But the more info I have the more relaxed I will feel. That's great advice and I will keep it with me on my trip. Have you been to Odessa? Anything there entertaining for the kids? Are you from Chicago? I lived there from 90 to 97. I really liked that city. My ex transferred to Vegas and I really hated to leave Chi town. I am a huge Blackhawks fan. Anyone know if $55 per night is a decent price for a nice 3 room apartment in Odessa? Is two bedrooms and a fold out in the living area sufficient for myself, my lady and the two boys? Just wondered! Again thanks for all the input and advise. It will not go unused!

66 Fasty Man (Chris)

[MartinUK]

66,
Because during my trip in April I may be spending one or two nights in Odessa I browsed apartment prices and your price seems very reasonable.
That said, there are apartments and there are apartments, is yours stated as to a western standard? For the sake of perhaps an extra $15 a night sometimes it pays to go up=market a little.
Martin

Hey Martin, The apartment info comes from my lady. She has stayed there before with another visitor. Although she did not make a match, the apartment stayed in her mind. She says it is very clean and has all that is needed for a pleasant stay. It has modern furniture, 24 hour hot and cold water, all the kitchen goodies as she plans to cook, TV with satellite, stereo system and a very nice bathroom. My ladiy's girlfriend used this apartment a couple of times when her now husband visited her. Sveta (Lena's girlfriend) now lives here in the states and I have spoken with her and her husband. He tells me that the apartment is better than most of the hotels and in a very good location. He also gave me advice similar to chgoboy's. He say to treat the first visit like a vacation and if you find your love while your there, that's a bonus! Thank's for your reply. Good Luck on your visit!

Chris

[MartinUK]

66,
Well if it comes recommended then what can I say except can you perhaps 'private message' to me it's information. How one may book it, is it on the internet etc?
I saw studio's or one bedrooms for more money than that with no recommendation!

By the way 66, if you didn't hear but were expecting to hear from your lady yesterday, they had high winds which brought the power cables down. My lady is to the south of yours, she had no electricity.

[chgoboy]

Hey 66FM.....haven't made it to Odessa yet but that's the plan before summer. I've heard great things. I'll be back in St.Petersburg in 2 weeks with a quick trip to Rostov on the way home, and then to Volgograd in about 14 weeks. Generally speaking, that's a pretty good rate for an apartment. $50-70 USD is about right for a fairly good place which beats the hotels at $110-170. Yep, Chicago is home town, but I haven't lived there in many years. Great city, just too much owning a snow shovel involved for my taste (I know....I know...then I go to St. Petersburg in FEBRUARY!). I get back all the time to see family in Chi-town but I wouldn't want to live there year-round any more. I'll stay down here in the sunshine. Hope things continue to go well with your gal. I'll be interested to read your report! The good news is I know A LOT of very happy guys that are married to women from FSU and they could not be happier. I plan to be one of those guys. ~Dan~

There is no need to be afraid I think with her two children
no women would dare to cheat you. ıt is very difficult for her
to hook a man.
The point is : I would invite her ,instead of going where
she lives. You never know.....

[nemez]

I would invite her ,instead of going where she lives. You never know.....
you will never know, who she is, how she lives.............

There is a funny new homepage about these themes..
unfortunatelly in German..

http://people.freenet.de/dieostfrau/

Best luck, Fred

I guess i am in the high risk range being the age i am lol http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[MartinUK]

Whats Up,
The 'high risk' has nothing to do with your age but it has everything to do with the age of the lady(s). Unless you want to spend the rest of your days as nothing more than a 'sugar daddy' you need to be realistic in your quest.

See that is what i am trying to understand but for example say someone was 25 what age range would that person be looking in if you know what i mean

[MartinUK]

Whats Up,
A 25 y/o guy could approach any age of lady from 18 upwards with a realistic chance of success. That said, I learnt the hard way that in my experience, I have sinced looked for a lady who works for a living thus has no excuse for not realising that money doesn't grow on trees. A student, again in my experience, had lived off mummy & daddy so there is a risk you could merely be a replacement for mummy & daddy.
A 25 y/o lady, well if her profile says she looks for a guy 25-40 you have to understand that 40 is the extreme. She'd probably prefer a guy between 25-35 but has said 40 in case she doesn't get any younger takers. You also have to take into consideration her physical appearance and if she has kids, why should a 25 y/o stunner with no kids be interested in a 40 y/o guy? Likewise, stay clear of the 21 y/o stunners that say they are interested in a guy till 50 or 55, 2 + 2 = ?

Thanks MArtin for the helpful tip on what to stay away from and to watch out for when i am writing to a lady

Well to all you guys and thanks to martin i avoided a lady after two emails she asked for money whih was like huh she said she was a designer but i mean for the amoutn the ladiy wanted yike hello i live in canada and i am not a hockey player ...Thnak you martin for your knowledge ..