Who Knows? May be?!!

[olivertwist]

To whom it may read.

I am a Turkish man living downtown of Istanbul and Germany ( colougne ) . I am electronic engineer and 41 yo.
I was married 2 times .
One of them F....D my money second F....D my hearth.
In this case little explaining.When i was divorced second time 3 years ago.I promised myself ( no any contact with turkish spoken girl in my life )I was think , my love life is finished cause i little bit old and something is difficult after then this time.
I was drink a coffee with a Russian lady at mostly spoken russian part of istanbul and i changed my mind.....
Then tried some times. and I had some scammed, some refuses, some rejects.
and I understand that many russian or spoken russian girl is have a wrong ( may be they are okay but you have to wrong contact in wrong people in turkey ) minds.
Huh little bit confused.
But i tried some ways.But some wrong going on for contact with russian spoken womans.
I visited to Ukraine ( Sevastopol ) 1-11 september 2002 for my norwegian and ukrainan friends marry there.
I was best man. ( IT WAS TOTALLY GREAT )
And I still looking for a Lady to live to ending our life together.
I will explain myself with many post also.

With my best wishes.
Can

[Vicky]

Hi, olivertwist,
a story of yours is understandable, though I still can't perceive what you meant by the poll. Can you specify that a bit?
Thanks

[olivertwist]

Hi Vicky

Many thanks for your answer.

Answers;

About poll. '' Who knows,May be -- May be i will find a how i like a lady -- ''
About specify ;
I want to falling love and life-friendship a Lady who will to be felt me '' Hmmmm i have real WOMAN near of me. I smell it.''
She no need anymore like work or any other life difficulties.
I solve all problem for our life.
I am planning to have a child in next 3 years.She must not to have a child.Sorry for this.I want I dont want a lady who have a child and have 2 parts of hearth.
I want really womanship and sexapelity have Lady near of mine.

http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

I guess little specify is enough for nowly?

Okay .

bye for now.

[angelin]

</span>[QUOTE= (olivertwist @ Oct. 29 2002,19:37)]To whom it may read.

I am a Turkish man living downtown of Istanbul and Germany ( colougne ) . I am electronic engineer and 41 yo.
I was married 2 times .
One of them F....D my money second F....D my hearth.
In this case little explaining.When i was divorced second time 3 years ago.I promised myself ( no any contact with turkish spoken girl in my life )I was think , my love life is finished cause i little bit old and something is difficult after then this time.
I was drink a coffee with a Russian lady at mostly spoken russian part of istanbul and

[Jon]

Dear angelin,

Oh my friend, please stay away from Turkish men. I've been to Turkey twice this year with Ukrainian and the men in Turkey treated them like whores. I think the men in Turkey are about the most "uncivilized" men in the world. I hate to say this, but they like blonde women and don't care about respect towards women. I think that these men are no better than others from thrird world countries.

I took my girlfriend shopping in Istanbul and the men there were pigs. They whistled and jeered at her all the time. One guy even said she had a nice ass!!! No man in Europe would treat a woman like a piece of meat. Men in Turkey don't respect women and think all women from Russia and Ukraine are prostitues.

I'm sorry, but you can tell from the ICQ that they only want to have sex and not know you as a human. I won't ever bring another woman to Turkey because the men there will always be pigs and slobs. Stay with Western men and far away from Turkey...

P.S. Both my women friends who I took to Turkey didn't want anything to do with those men. They usually just laughed and told me that Turks and lower than pig s**t. Women from the FSU generally laugh at how the men in Turkey always try get them in bed, but they can't offer these women nothing!!!

Jon

[olivertwist]

Hello to people who was given me answer

For ANGELIN :

Angelin , yes i was best man but not from my all friends.
it means i was best man in this marriage http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
as you know one man is best man one woman is best woman in wedding!!!i am best mean is this. http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

For JON :

Jon
My friend , you says many bad things , but i accept some and I reject some.
Accepting to turkish mans to look how to CIS ladies.but we didnt want it. They do. But i seperate to normal people and normal ladies.
Also if you are a man.....Think about Western mans , They are totally good? HUH...if your answer Yes...You are BLIND.
People is people on the world.
Nationality is nothing
Personality everything.

Rejecting to you....
You do nationalism..
if it is....
http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif inform me...

With my best wishes

Can

[katya]

</span>[QUOTE= (olivertwist @ Nov. 02 2002,22:34)]Hello to people who was given me answer

For ANGELIN

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 01 2002,23:17)]Dear angelin,

Oh my friend, please stay away from Turkish men.

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 01 2002,23:17)]Dear angelin,

Oh my friend, please stay away from Turkish men.

Out of all the people on this website Angelin, I respect your comments the most. I think that you are honest to a fault, perhaps. But the term "best man" just means the man whose is the best friend of the groom. The best friend of the woman is called a "brides maid". I am amazed that "wing nut", Jonny did not elucidate you on that fine point before he speiled on his UN edict on the evils of Turkish men. Smooth Jonny, really smooth!!!! http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Vicky]

Please, cool down girls and guys, otherwise this may again turn into national and what is worse personal thing, and it wont' add any of us anything attractive. I know this is a general discussion section, but doubtly general insult one http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Jon]

Well Gentlemen,

You may not like what I said about Turkish men, and I could have probably stated it differently, but the truth to the matter is that I spoke to several friends who also took Western women to Turkey and they agreed with me. Some of these men are liberals in my opinion. One is a fairly well-known Dutch artist who is exhibiting now in Haarlem and soon will travel to Bombay for a two week exhibit. His attitude was that he'd never take his girlfriend to Turkey...why is that?

My personal experience was (still is) bothering me for several reason. I've spent a month there (over the past year) with two different woman (also the mother of one went with us) and both felt the same towards the men. That's not my problem. That's the way they felt and I couldn't do anything about it.

Aside from their opinions, I developed mine from the treatment these women endured in Turkey. It's really frustrating to try and enjoy your holiday time with someone when you continue to get "hit up" by men. I'm not just talking about one or two, but hundreds during the two weeks. We couldn't walk down the street without at least a half-dozen guys making lude remarks.

Now please tell me that you wouldn't be a little upset. Sure, maybe I could have said that "lacked" manners -- that would have been putting it mildly. I've never been to a western country where the men were so obviously rude and demeaning toward women -- Or Canada or Japan or Korea or China or even Mexico for that matter.

I treat women with respect and wouldn't snear at Turkish women and make lude remarks. When I'm in another country, I respect the women and their traditions. I've lived in several countries and lived and travelled most of the U.S., so I have a fair grasp of the cultures in other countries. I can only compare the way Turkish men treated these women -- and other countries where I have taken them.

When we are in Europe together I never have had a bad experience with the "mass" of men coming on to my girlfriend or making insinuating remarks.

Please tell me that you believe it is acceptable for men to treat women with almost no respect at all? I also want to ask any of the men who responded if they have ever taken a Western woman to Turkey? Please try it some day...go through two weeks of humility and shocked disbelief then come back to this list and tell me how wrong I am...

I don't mean to say that all Turkish men are pigs. It's kinda of sad that I have this impression, but it's from personal experience and not National attitude. If you think that I have a national identity problem then think again. I'm living in Holland, have a British and American passport and dating a Ukrainian woman. I don't discuss politics and could care less about national issues. I've been fortunate to meet wonderful people from all over the world and the most fun was in Turkey, except for the constant picking at FSU women from the men.

Now...let's drop this because I'll let you men discover the truth for yourselves someday. Believe me, almost all FSU women like to visit the beach and Turkey has some of the best around. My apologies to any decent Turk that I may have offended, but please think of my disgust and allow me to visit your country without having to always fend off rude remarks to the women I'm with. I just want to relax and not always have a horde of men trying to hit on my girlfriend.

P.S. For those who don't live in Europe, please meet some Europeans and learn about their attitudes towards each other and you might be in for a surprise. I spoke to dozens of Dutch people and they have very strong emotions towards Germans, French, and of course Turks. It's Europe and that's life my friends. Try looking at the world from another point-of-view and you'll see something(s) that might actually surprise and alarm your sensibilities. There are a lot of very strong National opinions about each country here in Europe. I'm not really surprised, but it's an attitude that I find hard to understand sometimes. Talk to a Belguim guy about Germans and you'll think that he was talking about a nigger from Mississippi. -- weird?

Here's another interesting fact. You'll find very few Ukrainians or Russian women in Holland? Unless they are prostitutes or Au Pairs. I haven't the answer, but it appears that Dutch men don't swin outside their own waters in search of a wife. The Dutch women I've met and seen are very beautiful and easy to understand. In general, Dutch women are European and slim, blonde, and georgous (typically 170, 52).

OK...enough of this thread.

Jon

[Jon]

For the Canadian,

Don't believe for a moment that because I and my girlfriend were treated with almost no respect while in Turkey that this is a National issue. I've been to Canada on many occasions and always was treated with respect and dignity. I can't always say this about other countries I've visited.

When I say that the Turkish men were pigs it was because I recently spent two weeks fending off their lude remarks and bad behavior toward me and my girlfriend. I'll give you an example.

I took my girlfriend to a nice dinner show one night. We went to celebrate out last night together in Turkey. It wasn't a cheap restraurant, but a fairly expensive dinner for two. So, my expectations were that we would have a very romantic dinner and spend time together. I didn't expect the waiter to hang around our table all night trying to start a conversation with my girlfriend. At first it was amusing because he kept mentioning how he liked Russian women. Of course my girlfriend corrected him and said she was Ukrainian.

Needless to say, the waiter kept trying to get more and more information about her, where she lived, her personal life and even had the gull to ask if we were together. I was trying to be a gentleman and mentioned that it wasn't necessary for him to remain next to our table all evening. He had other customers whom he could discuss culture or whatever he wanted. I just wanted to spend time alone with the woman I love. Not a very difficult arrangement or concept to understand. Afterall, his job is to make our stay there comfortable, not to spend the whole evening engaged in conversation with my girlfriend. He made the evening less enjoyable and after a while I politely asked him to leave us alone for the remainder of the evening....

Did he? No, he insisted on getting more involved with my girlfriend and wanted to know what her plans were for the week? What? It's really none of his business and I started to feel a little over-heated at the suggestion. When he finally took a break, my girlfriend mentioned to me that I should ask him not to return. I did as she asked, but did he respect my request? NO!

This waiter had no clue that we wanted to be alone. His whole agenda was to solicited information from my girlfriend and made several comments about her appearance. Now come on...what the heck is he doing.

This is just one example of how the Turkish men we encountered exhibited proper behavior. It was obvious to both of us that this guy didn't have the slightest idea how to treat us as customers or my girlfriend as a woman. The waiter just wanted to find out if she was available later that evening.

So, now please forgive me if I have a jaded attitude towards Turkish men. But the example is one of the "mild" ones. Try and imagine what it feels like to lay on the beach and have one after the other approach your girlfriend and ask if she is working or on holiday. I mean "Working" as a prostitute for you guys who don't know what this means.

OK. I may have had a couple of bad experiences with Turkish men. Trust me, I won't be bringing any other women to this country because I've experienced about all the humility and disrespect that is possible for a life time. I plan on visiting Egypt in the spring and know from friends that the men tend to treat Western women much better. Maybe this trip I can actually rest and have a nice holiday, afterall, I'm there to spend quality time with my girlfriend.

P.S. I don't ask for your respect, save it for the women and children, your parents and countrymen. However, maybe you can tell my girlfriend that all men don't always show a total lack of respect for women like they do in Turkey. -- from our personal experiences.

Jon

[olivertwist]

Dear Ladies , Gentlemens.

Why i was opened that topic? What i got?

Okay let we continiue

For Angeline, Vicky , Katya

Best man means ''brides man'' near of friend a friend.
Only this . not Best man on the world...
hehehehe i know nobody best on this world .

Then for Jon...

Jon My friend . you talk much more about europe.
Yes europa is great places..
buttttttttt
Never forget...
Worlds biggest child porno country in europa.
Worlds biggest prostitution center in Amsterdam in your country.(Also many woman disturb me having sex with only one heroin or drug money in your country..what about it?? )
Worlds biggest Gay styles man living in europa in statistics..
Worlds biggest Wars done at this geography..may be remember!!
Worlds biggest mafia in this geography also Italy
Worlds biggest massacre country at past 10 years in Algeria , Guyana ...of course France....
Worlds biggest nationalist parties in Austria and Le PEN as you know...

And you said so much nice things about Europa but please answer me that questions first or to look yourself in mirror please...
Then piss over my glass...Not before then ,giving me my answers .

Also i am really unhappy for your trip to turkey with some problems as you wrote ..

EXCUSE for my country..
but never forget 10.000.000 Europan and total 20.000.000 tourist visit my country...Only some story as you said.
Some fault from your side???

Come again to istanbul and my home is your home. make a good holiday here and may be you will take some excuse about it.

Thank you to all

Can

[Jon]

Dear Can,

Please do not excuse your country or fellow citizens. I do not pretend to believe that "all" men in your country treat women with little or no respect. It just so happens that in my experience it wasn't very pleasant to have the women subjected to this type of behavior. It wasn't only me, but many of my friends and acquaintances in other countries have said the same thing. I went to Turkey with my girlfriend, her girlfriend and an American friend of mine, and a Dutch friend of mine was there at the same time.

Now, CAN, we are all from different countries but had the same impression of the men when we left. Why is it that all of us felt as though men in Turkey couldn't just leave us alone and respect our privacy? Why did the men in your country have to continually suggest that these women go home with them? Why is it that we couldn't walk down the street without men (almost all of them) making some kind of remark that isn't very gentleman like? I don't have to speak for the women because they've already told me how they feel about the men in your country.

Here's another point. I was sitting next to a Dutch couple in Alanya and the man (husband) said many of the things I've said about how his wife is treated by Turkish men.

I'm sorry CAN, but I've been to other countries and never felt like a piece of dirt later. Why should I want to visit you and have a nice holiday? After I leave your home, I must endure the rest of the holiday with lude remarks about my girlfriend.

I can't speak for Holland because I'm and an American living here. I may not agree with the Dutch about sex and drugs, but I've never had a Dutch man tell my girlfriend he wants to have sex with her...while I am standing next to him!!!

Different cultures and attitudes toward women. I'm afraid that you don't understand how it feels. Try being a European woman and having to go though a gauntlet in Instanbul.

You know the great thing about FSU women. Most of the time they just said "spasibo" and let it go at that. Once in a while the had to get firm and tell the guy to "f...k off!". I really had a lot of respect for my girlfriend because she could take care of herself. I just think that it wasn't necessary for her to have this happen in the first place.

Please take your girlfriend or wife to America and you'll see that men treat women there with RESPECT!

Point made...nothing further to say.

Jon

[Vicky]

I actually didn't want much to enter this discussion, but still there are couple of remarks.
Can, why so many words about how bad Europe is? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Turkey play in the European footbal cup? So it is recognized as part of Europe or not?
I haven't been to Turkey so far, but attitude of eastern men to women is a familiar thing to me. I'm not blaming you, Can, personally, you might be a brilliant exception to the rule. But I remember I was in Jerusalem, and was taking a walk along that eastern arab bazar. In front of me there was a group of russian tourists as far as I could hear my native language. There were quite a lot of women there, and all guys who were selling things there were literally snatching them by their hands, calling them all "Natashas", trying to get them inside their shops. Later I learned that they call all Russian women "Natasha" and that's a synonym for "prostitute". While in Egypt, when I was looking at some ancinet tomb, a policeman (!!!) came up to me and was also trying to take me to some other place, promising to show me a baby-sphinx! Haha! And take that - there was a friend of mine by my side. I don't know what's that - a general attitude to women showed by estern people or what? As for ICQ, yes, when I was using it often and didn't set up preferences for not being disturbed by people I don't know - there're dozens of turks, who, after "hi" were offering me "cybersex".
I might want to go to Turkey because of its fine beaches and nice weather (not mentioning a potential to become an earthquake victim), but I will hardly ever marry anyone eastern, and for sure won't live for good to a country with such a strange attitude to women. Sorry.

[Jon]

Vicky,

Nicely put. It was "Natasha" that came to mind when you brought it up. Funny thing was that it is a common practice in Eastern countries to believe that women from the FSU are "Natasha's".

That was my point from the beginning of this thread. I'm sorry if the Western guys didn't understand, but maybe if they took the time to investigate the term "Natasha" then they'd appreciate our attitudes.

The only reason I didn't go to Spain or Greece this holiday was the visa cost. Stupid me. It cost me more in "eatting crow" with my girlfriend than I could have ever imagined. Next time we are going to a country where the attitudes toward woman are more "civilized".

Good luck,

Jon

</span>Please, cool down girls and guys, otherwise this may again turn into national and what is worse personal thing, and it wont' add any of us anything attractive. I know this is a general discussion section, but doubtly general insult one http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif<span =''>
...People... you are tolking about many stupid things...
See life... All is soo COOL... dont make fiting...

[olivertwist]

Dear Jon

if you have a girlfriend from Ukraine ...

Why you are here and what you are looking for..??

please answer me

Can

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 03 2002,09:18)]Well Gentlemen,

You may not like what I said about Turkish men, and I could have probably stated it differently, but the truth to the matter is that I spoke to several friends who also took Western women to Turkey and they agreed with me.

[Jon]

CAN Wrote:

"Dear Jon

if you have a girlfriend from Ukraine ...

Why you are here and what you are looking for..??

please answer me

Can "


Here is my reply.

I am here as an observer and hopefully help answer some questions from people about dating, marriage, and general attitudes toward FSU/Western men. I didn't come to this site looking for a girlfriend. It was just an interesting way to see other people's point-of-view.

I've experienced three years of dating FSU women. Prior to that I spent a year in the Pacific Rim (Japan, China, Korea, etc.) and also gained some knowledge that may be of help to others. I haven't soliciated a relationship with any women here and don't have any intentions. I am perfectly happy with my girlfriend.

This forum can also be a bridge between the various cultures. Some FSU women may have a warped sense of reality when it comes to marrying a western man. I would like to help them get an "unbiased" opinion of life in the U.S. I don't want to discourage them or harm any Western man's chances at happiness. There are so many hurdles each person must over come.

I've had a couple of FSU confide information to me and I tried to answer them from the "Western Man's" point of view. I can only tell them my perceptions and feelings. A couple of guys from other countries have asked my opinion about sending money to women they just met. I said its not a good idea because they don't know these women.

So, I may not always be helpful, but I try to give some insight and feedback when its possible.

Vicky and Katya also provide feedback, but I don't make the assumption they are here to find a man. Maybe they just like to exchange stories, ideas, and constructive feedback to other members.

Is that ok?

Jon

[Vicky]

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 03 2002,18:18)]Vicky and Katya also provide feedback, but I don't make the assumption they are here to find a man.

[olivertwist]

Dear Jon

You change your telling to me what was you answered here to me first replies...
Are you politicians? are you angel?
i am really want to know .. who are you and what kind of minds ?
i still not understand you very well ...
you says some one way and other reply you change your reply..
Are there any more writer to that board ? you and your girlfriend or??

I guess ...... hmmmm ... forget....

Can

PS : i havent your answers to my questions to you....

[katya]

</span><span =''>
Jon
As secret, If you will be my loving man, and I

[liam]

So,
# Turkish men are pigs??
# Eygptian police-men are perverts???
# Korean men are violent???
# Dutch girls are all babes???
# Belgium men are racist???
# Arab shopkeepers are creeps???
# Canadians are charming???
# Ukranian girls have nice asses???
# Amsterdam is full of child sex criminals?http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Generalisation and stereotypying are at the root of a lot of the worlds misery, why not say something nice!!!!!!!!!!!.

Anyone got anything enlightening to say about englishmen living in New Zealand???.
liam

[Jon]

</span>[quote=Jon,Nov. 03 2002,18:18]
Jon

[Vicky]

</span>So,
# Turkish men are pigs??
# Eygptian police-men are perverts???
# Korean men are violent???
# Dutch girls are all babes???
# Belgium men are racist???
# Arab shopkeepers are creeps???
# Canadians are charming???
# Ukranian girls have nice asses???
# Amsterdam is full of child sex criminals?http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Generalisation and stereotypying are at the root of a lot of the worlds misery, why not say something nice!!!!!!!!!!!.

Anyone got anything enlightening to say about englishmen living in New Zealand???.
liam<span =''>
liam,
there's no stereotypes talk, just sharing experience with some (!) representatives of this of that country, this or that nation, it's you who's generalizing things http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

P.S. As far as I know NZ is famous for sheep (Please, don't blame me, I'm not saying you're a shepherd, ok? http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif )

</span>[quote=Jon,Nov. 03 2002,18:18]
Jon

[katya]

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 04 2002,00:32)]Is this site evil?

[olivertwist]

Dear Ladies and Gentlemens...

For Jon
I am very sorry to have conclusion in this subject.
When one people kidnapped one other ...
Everyone have some weapon...
I am reagain to invite you to my home.its true ... for clear your memory about turkey..
Good Drinks , Nice Bars , Rock Music , and wonderful panaromic bosphorus view.
Let we forget
Let we handshake ..
Okay my friend...???

Then
I will tell some about me...

What mans looks??

For my personality or my manship :

I want
To feel near of me a full hot woman.
To feel that feeling every second of my life,
To feel my woman everytime modern and behind of me for everything.
To feel when she is away me..distance is nothing for us.
To feel we are different people but we share all life and to go older together.

Nowly this.

Can

[liam]

G' day Vicky,

What i wrote was simply a condensed version of several of the last posts, looks pretty ugly up close eh???, its just that at the end of the day i think its pretty raw to write of a nation of men in turkey, because of what is after all a cultural difference. I've travelled all around the world, lived in lots of different cultures and learnt a great deal from it, yeah theres always gonna be fundamental differences in the way people from completly different cultures/idealogies interact but if you want to be open to new experiences you have to take the rough with the smooth.
After-all, one of the main attractions for me personally in any attempt to meet/fall-in-love/whatever with say a russian girl would be the opportunity to share and combine our different lives, the little differences that make life exciting, the cultural and lifestyle opportunites intermingled and explored. If I want some one from my own country, with the same values, mentality and basic beliefs, I'll simply move back to manchester and find a girl there. I don't particulary really even know yet what the fundamental differences are between a girl from your country and one from mine are ( I don't really buy into the standard exclusive 'good mothers', 'faithful partners', 'good house-wife' marketing 'cos thats nothing really new anywhere) but i do know that its a very appealing and exciting trying to find out.

[Jon]

Dear Can,

You wrote:

Let we forget
Let we handshake ..
Okay my friend...???


My reply:

Yes!

However, I will soon leave this site and not return. It was an interesting experience, but I have other tasks that need my attention and this is becoming a distraction. I was not here to meet women, so there is no reason for my continued presence.

Good luck in your seach and I hope the best for you,

Jon

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 05 2002,00:23)]Dear Can,

You wrote:

Let we forget
Let we handshake ..
Okay my friend...???


My reply:

Yes!

However, I will soon leave this site and not return.

[katya]

</span>[QUOTE= (Jon @ Nov. 05 2002,00:23)]Dear Can,

You wrote:

Let we forget
Let we handshake ..
Okay my friend...???


My reply:

Yes!

However, I will soon leave this site and not return.

[olivertwist]

Hey Jon

MF...

come back....

i know you read that replies..
davai..
pajalusto..
spasiba

Can

John,
You are quite and absolutely right that Turkish en are the worst in the world!
They are so dirty, primitive, unresponsible, undecent, unhonest, and like promising much. They like to repeate that they are real Muslims but insolently lie everyone who they meet even their good friends and partners in business! Though Koran teaches that a lie is the biggest sin.
Unfortunately I had a tenant from Turkey for 4 months, he was a businessman and lived alone in 3-roomed nice flat which is my property. He promises to keep my flat in order and clear - but left so much dirt. He cut cords from the new TV-set and the new microwave and sound unit of a music centre - why? I don't know. He broke a sanitary unit too, and kitchen units... He turned up to be a real barbarian!!! He left enormous debts on payments for using Internet and international trunkcalls... He always told a lie.. He told that he is a real Muslim (and my mother trusted him that he is a real believer and couldn't to tell a lie) and will not cheat but he always deceived us. He even swindled and cheated his friends who helped him in his difficult times, they gave me a garranty for all his payments for renting . But he cheated them too!
Never trust Turkish men! They try only to obtain others' money cheating eveyone who they meet.
They have a dirty and immoral essense inside them!

[Jon]

Dear Almira,

I was mistaken to say Turkish men are pigs because that's not always true. Maybe the men who we came across were not always polite, but CAN showed me that some men from Turkey can be decent and honorable. I don't think the problem you had with a renter means all Turkish men are slobs and liars. I had a tenent in Phoenix who was just them same and he was an American. He left many problems for me and often was very late with the rent. I had to pay additional money for the damage he did to my house. I also had to spend three days cleaning up the mess and it wasn't fun.

So this problem is everywhere. Not just Turkish men. I want to end this conversation because it is offensive and not really productive towards finding the right person for you. It is better to forgive...universal and not just in the Koran.

Jon

[olivertwist]

To JON

Jon ,,, very thank you to looking to subjects objectively.

Problem is not Nationality or religion ( also i am non religion man )
Because whats Religions says everytime. Peace , Brothership or sistership and many many Bla bla...
Then that religions (ALL) have to problem and trouble between other religion..HUH ....

Last thing

No Nationality YES Personality.

http://datingtalk.info/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif like Joan BAEZ.. YES woman NO cry ? UH ...OR ..NO woman NO cry ??

With my best wishes

CAN