Dating Etiquette

[alfren]

There was a time when dating was simple. Men were expected to be gentlemen and women were expected to be ladies. Their roles were clear-cut. Today single people are often mixed up about proper dating etiquette. This is particularly true if you are re-entering the singles scene after years of being half of a married couple. It can be quite traumatic to play the "dating game" without knowing the rules.

Singles often feel in a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" situation. For example, if you're a man and automatically pick up the check at a restaurant, you may gain points with one woman but antagonize another. If you're a woman and prefer to pay your own way you'll find that some men love it and others hate it. So what are the rules for dating in America in the Eighties?

There are none. What works with some singles, doesn't work with others. It may be helpful therefore, to do 2 things:

1. Communicate with your dating partners. Let them know your preferences in terms of male/female roles, and find out theirs. For example, if you are a man who enjoys opening the door for a woman, ask her if she's comfortable with that or prefers to open her own door. If you're a woman who likes to pay her own way, check that out with your partner before the date.
2. Be tolerant of your date's desires. Again using the example above, if she says she doesn't want you to open her door, then don't. Don't get upset or try to persuade your date to give in your expectations.

There are 3 issues that come up most often during dates.

Issue #1: Who Initiates the Date ?

Despite what you hear about women's liberation, the man usually initiates dates in America. But it also is socially acceptable for a woman to initiate a date. So do what feels comfortable.

Issue #2: Who Controls the Date ?

Some men enjoy the "masculine" role of deciding where to go on a date. Many women feel quite comfortable with this. In that case, there's nothing wrong with an "old-fashioned date" with the man making the decisions. Many men and women, however, want a more equal relationship where both share in the decisions. It's important, therefore, to communicate your preferences and try to come to an accommodation with your partner.

Issue #3: Who Pays ?

Here again you can't believe all you read and hear about women's liberation. The fact of the matter is that most women in California expect the man to pick up the check at restaurants, bars, etc. If you're a man, therefore, expect to pay most of the time.

Some men feel uncomfortable with picking up the bill. They prefer a "Dutch treat" where the bill is split. That's fine, as long as you have discussed this earlier with your date and she has agreed to it. Otherwise, it is quite rude to ask a woman out to a movie, for example, and announce to her at the ticket window that she has to pay for her own ticket.

Men who would prefer that the woman "pay her fair share" often feel uncomfortable about discussing these matters. They are afraid that the woman will consider him to be cheap. This is indeed a possibility. Many women expect to be treated generously by a man. Some want to be taken to expensive restaurants, night clubs, etc. They may expect the man to bring flowers, a bottle of wine, or candy on a date when he comes to pick her up.

What do you do if you're a man and feel uncomfortable with all this? Don't date that kind of woman. There are plenty of women who are willing to pay their own way. They are the minority, but still a sizable one.

Some men feel quite bitter about society's expectation that they pick up the tab on dates. They can't understand why women are so "unfair". The most obvious reason is tradition. Throughout history men have been the "providers" and women have been the "homemakers". Today, with a significant percentage of the American work force composed of women, this is no longer always the case. But old traditions die slowly.

Another explanation is the fact that women only earn 72% of what men do in our society. For this reason many women feel that it is quite fair that the man pay for activities on dates.

One way the issue of equity is often settled is by the man paying for out-of-pocket expenses and the woman repaying him by having him over for dinner. This is a very fair way of handling the issue since most single men don't eat very good meals and really appreciate a home-cooked meal.

If you are a woman, you may have a problem adjusting to the expectations of different men on this issue. One man may be offended if you offer to pay your half. The next may be delighted. Again communication and tolerance are the keys. Normally it's assumed that the man will pay, but if you prefer to pay your own way you should discuss this ahead of time, preferably on the phone before your first date.

Come to an agreement on who is to pay.

What do you do if the man insists on paying? You can call him a male chauvinist pig and refuse to go out with him again. Or you can accede to his wishes and let him pay. This has obvious financial advantages. There often is a disadvantage, however. Some men believe that if they spend money on a woman this entitles them to sexual favors. Don't allow yourself to fall into this trap. If you're going to feel pressured to give in sexually to a man who spends a lot of money on you in an evening then insist on paying your own way. If he won't agree to this, then cancel the date.

In other words, stick up for your rights. Try to be accommodating to the needs of your date, but not at the cost of sacrificing your own values or comfort.

[Arie]

So what are the rules for dating in America in the Eighties?
I guess true romance is timeless, but to copy-paste a text from 20 years ago without your own comment?

They prefer a "Dutch treat" where the bill is split.

Luckily some Dutchies are generous :)

[firedancer]

BILL SPLIT???? i would never go on a date like this...:mad:

[Arie]

Welllll... life is about choices.

Last century, women decided that they're equal to men, they wanted to work outside the house, they wanted a man to do the dishes... So why should men still pay the bills? In Holland, dating couples do split the bill, and if I'd date a feminist, I'd do it too, to tease her :) But in general, it's good to be generous lin life.

Anyway, it's easy to demand the pleasures of being equal, but hard to start paying the costs :)

[firedancer]

I think this equality has degenerated. I totally agree that woman must have equality with men in law, in job possibilities, they have right to vote and so on. But i dont think that this equality was ment in bill splitting and other things, that gentelemen do for ages, and ladies accept it. Of course there are freaky women, total feminists who need to feel themselves in shoes of a man, but thanks god i had never meet such :) it's not a problem to pay even whole bill to me, but etiquette...

[Arie]

But i dont think that this equality was ment in bill splitting and other things, that gentelemen do for ages, and ladies accept it.
Staying at home and raising the children by mothers has also been accepted for ages, even thousands of years, and this has changed too ;)

I think the person with most salary should pay the bills. Ok ok, a gentleman will pick up the bill in any case...

[firedancer]

well i wouldnt mind raising children but staying at home all the time... hard thing. but i could manage if husband would ask to prepare food :D

[Arie]

I think it's good a woman starts working again, especially when children are bigger. And a good man would do the dishes, as you know, it's my hobby :D

Less romantic option is to buy a dishwasher... ;)

[firedancer]

buy me a dishwasher and i will give u 10 kids and never work and let u have a lover :D :D :D :D

[Arie]

I'll settle for anything, but please no lover! My old heart wants to love only one butterfly :)

... ordering my dishwasher ...

[firedancer]

ok im buying a bike and going to amsterdam :D

[Arie]

At the first canal, to the right please. Then look for a guy with tulips in his hand :)

[firedancer]

could u plz change flowers into books? i kinda prefer books to flowers :o

[Arie]

But books will get wet in Dutch rain...

I've forgotten, you don't romantic gifts... kakoi koshmar :(

I have books at home, quite a lot actually so you can read all day ;) Russian, English, Dutch...

[Nu Pogodi]

buy me a dishwasher and i will give u 10 kids and never work and let u have a lover :D :D

10 kids? :eek:
Be careful, Arie. She may work for an orphange.:p

[Arie]

I think she wants her own soccer-team ;)

She loves Brazilian football, hopefully she'll get many Ronaldinios :D

[firedancer]

i want 5 kids not 10 :p and i will not marry any guy from that team because i love them because of the game, not because of good look :rolleyes:

[Nu Pogodi]

I think she wants her own soccer-team ;)

She loves Brazilian football, hopefully she'll get many Ronaldinios :D

Brazilian women can be very aggressive.......................
firedancer, are you a scrapper?:D

[Nu Pogodi]

i want 5 kids not 10 :p and i will not marry any guy from that team because i love them because of the game, not because of good look :rolleyes:

How about the 2.5 average?:p
How does anyone have half a kid?
Oops, forgot about joint custody.

[Arie]

How about the 2.5 average?:p
How does anyone have half a kid?
Oops, forgot about joint custody.
We'll be the first couple who met on the forum, and not on the datingfree pages :D Everybody's invited to the housewarming party :D

[firedancer]

5 kids and dishwasher or nobody will have me :p

[Arie]

Ok ok, it was my last try... :D

Will please all men with a dishwasher, a child-wish, and a pretty good stamina report to desk number 8. You can ask for Firedancer :D

[firedancer]

that's it im staying single. :cool:

[Arie]

Such beauty shouldn't be single... all those beautiful babies never born... :(

[firedancer]

yes well life is cruel :rolleyes:

[Arie]

No, life is beautiful! La vita e bella, as a wise Italian philosopher once said :D You deserve good karma...

[firedancer]

i deserve a dishwasher:cool:

[Nu Pogodi]

i deserve a dishwasher:cool:

Nothing short of a Bosch, pumpkin.

Or you could hire a live in Brazilian footballer to do the dishes.;)

[firedancer]

and who will pay them, you? :D :D :D

[Marylin]

sweetheart, i was also thinking at the moment we get a dishwasher the problem would be solved. kak by ne tak :D - we got it, but they always make me wash the dishes anyway! *cussing*
:D

[Arie]

sweetheart, i was also thinking at the moment we get a dishwasher the problem would be solved. kak by ne tak :D - we got it, but they always make me wash the dishes anyway! *cussing*
:D
What is wrong with doing the the dishes? It has a quick result, you don't need to use your brain for it, you can put music on...

Besides, if one washes and the other dries, you get the best conversations in any relationship. No wonder so many people break up with all these dishwashers... :mad:

[firedancer]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? u have dishwasher and u still wash dishes?? :eek: thats not good.. i told my mom i will not wash a single cup untill i see dishwasher at home. so i dont wash :p and i dont cook :D im perfect wife, ain't i? :D

[Arie]

And you even smoke too... You're simply inrresistible :D

[firedancer]

now now, there's no need to spoil me so much :o

[Arie]

Only till Valentines Day, then we'll burn everything :D

[firedancer]

yea yea stupid valentine's day :rolleyes:

[Arie]

You'll learn to love it :cool:

[firedancer]

i'll cow can learn to fly, but not me to love those days :p

[Arie]

As long as you love people instead of days :D

[firedancer]

i luv u more than that day ;)

[Nu Pogodi]

and who will pay them, you? :D :D :D

No, you.
I do not have the charms to persuade a footballer.;)

The Bosch dishwashers are better built than the standard consumer washers.
I have a GE that I have had to fix a few times; very easy to repair.

[Nu Pogodi]

sweetheart, i was also thinking at the moment we get a dishwasher the problem would be solved. kak by ne tak :D - we got it, but they always make me wash the dishes anyway! *cussing*
:D

Dishes should be rinsed off before going into the washer; food could clog the filter or water discharge tube.
Also, knives, pots and pans with handles can be ruined because of the heat of a dishwasher.

[Nu Pogodi]

What is wrong with doing the the dishes? It has a quick result, you don't need to use your brain for it, you can put music on...

Besides, if one washes and the other dries, you get the best conversations in any relationship. No wonder so many people break up with all these dishwashers... :mad:

Yeah and they argue about who will load it and unload it.:rolleyes:

[Arie]

No, you.
I do not have the charms to persuade a footballer.;)

The Bosch dishwashers are better built than the standard consumer washers.
I have a GE that I have had to fix a few times; very easy to repair.
German Gruelichkeit is the best :)

I think that if we would give people in Israel and Palestina dishwashers as well, instant peace would break out :D

[firedancer]

bunny, if i would wash dishes, i would never have such nails as i have now.

second, the best conversations are after sex before falling asleep - fast and clear talk.

i really hate dishes..really really really.. and i need dishwasher.. :(

[firedancer]

No, you.
I do not have the charms to persuade a footballer.;)

The Bosch dishwashers are better built than the standard consumer washers.
I have a GE that I have had to fix a few times; very easy to repair.

i dont have that charm either :rolleyes:

[Arie]

bunny, if i would wash dishes, i would never have such nails as i have now.

second, the best conversations are after sex before falling asleep - fast and clear talk.

i really hate dishes..really really really.. and i need dishwasher.. :(
We'll save your nails, and forget about dishes :cool:

After sex, I prefer to fall asleep in warm arms...

[firedancer]

well.... depends on how long sex lasted :p after short one - no sleep :flame:

[Arie]

After short sex, you can have a second one... :cool:

We should never rush the good things in life :)

[firedancer]

of couse i expect third fourth and at least fifth short after that second :D :D

[Nu Pogodi]

German Gruelichkeit is the best :)

I think that if we would give people in Israel and Palestina dishwashers as well, instant peace would break out :D

Never heard of Gruelichkeit; maybe a different translation.

Peace in the Middle East? If it was only that easy..........

[Arie]

Never heard of Gruelichkeit
Sorry, I typed too quickly, it's "Gruendlichkeit" (Gründlichkeit), it means somelike being thorough and precise.

[Arie]

of couse i expect third fourth and at least fifth short after that second :D :D
I remember you want 5 children, Sweety :D

[firedancer]

i hope u do :D and they arent made at one time

[Arie]

Like in the good old Soviet-time, it's a five year plan :D

[firedancer]

thats why i say that it was gooooooood to live in soviet union :cool:

[Nu Pogodi]

Sorry, I typed too quickly, it's "Gruendlichkeit" (Gründlichkeit), it means somelike being thorough and precise.

Still no idea. Maybe part of a larger corporation or maybe not imported into the U.S.?
I had a very hard time finding Mission speakers; they are British. Finally found them in Pennsylvania.

[Arie]

Sorry, it's only a word, and not a brand.

[Arie]

thats why i say that it was gooooooood to live in soviet union :cool:
I'd personally send all socialists inside and outside the former Soviet Union to he Gulag... Maybe you can move to North-Korea? :D

[firedancer]

nop :) i liked soviet union and i believe it was good system, but only theoretically perfect, because practically it failed..

[Arie]

Nope :) socialism is inherently bad, just like for example fascism.

People deserve to have economic freedom, just like they deserve political freedom. To gain economic controle by the state, the state has to take away all other freedoms as well. Every individual is treated the same, nobody takes chances, you get a stagnating and corrupt system.
The moment repression and threat from the state disappears (Czechoslovakia in 1968, Gorbachev's perestroika), the whole socialist system collapses.

It's always amazing: socialism killed far more people than fascism. In Cuba's Castro more political opponents were executed than in Pinochet's Chili. Still people wear Che Guevara t-shirts, not t-shirts with Pinochet, 'cause socialism "is bascially good". As an American writer once said: "socialism is fascism with a human face".

Besides, in the Soviet-Union you wouldn't be allowed to post to freely on the internet :D

[firedancer]

i dont even think fascism was bad. i dont like jewish too, they so sneaky persons.

ok, so killing was bad, but the only way to rule the country is to scare the ppl.. so no freedom, big deal, ppl dont know what to do with freedome, they begin to use drugs, because they are free, they begin writing nonsence over internet and so on. i like strick government :P

[Arie]

:)

I'm a bit flabbergasted, with remarks about Jews, fascism and freedom. I hope it was a bad joke :D

Communism and fascism destroyed itself, not just by being evil, but by the stupidity of the system. People do know what to do with freedom, creative minds need it to invent new things (like the internet), to change the way we think, to progress as a society. Nowhere in history have people been so free, nowhere in history people in general have been so rich. Coincidence? Not really...

Why is it that you hate freedom that you use yourself (internet)? It's like those muslim fundamentalists, hating the West in which they live.

[Nu Pogodi]

Nope :) socialism is inherently bad, just like for example fascism.

People deserve to have economic freedom, just like they deserve political freedom. To gain economic controle by the state, the state has to take away all other freedoms as well. Every individual is treated the same, nobody takes chances, you get a stagnating and corrupt system.
The moment repression and threat from the state disappears (Czechoslovakia in 1968, Gorbachev's perestroika), the whole socialist system collapses.

It's always amazing: socialism killed far more people than fascism. In Cuba's Castro more political opponents were executed than in Pinochet's Chili. Still people wear Che Guevara t-shirts, not t-shirts with Pinochet, 'cause socialism "is bascially good". As an American writer once said: "socialism is fascism with a human face".

Besides, in the Soviet-Union you wouldn't be allowed to post to freely on the internet :D

Do you have labor unions in the Netherlands? Any social services?

Socialism killed more people than fascism? Wasn't Hitler fascist?

Nikita Khrushchev called for reforms in the late 50's and early 60's; they removed him. He had stayed in power, I believe it would have ended sooner. And if Gorbachev had stayed in power, Russia would not have had as many problems in the transition. Russia will be a democracy but on their terms.

[Nu Pogodi]

i dont even think fascism was bad. i dont like jewish too, they so sneaky persons.

ok, so killing was bad, but the only way to rule the country is to scare the ppl.. so no freedom, big deal, ppl dont know what to do with freedome, they begin to use drugs, because they are free, they begin writing nonsence over internet and so on. i like strick government :P

Are you a fan of Niccolo Machiavelli?

[Nu Pogodi]

:)

I'm a bit flabbergasted, with remarks about Jews, fascism and freedom. I hope it was a bad joke :D


And if it wasn't a joke? Maybe she will explain?

It's good to argue. Make up sex can be wonderful.:thumb:

[Arie]

Do you have labor unions in the Netherlands? Any social services?

Socialism killed more people than fascism? Wasn't Hitler fascist?

Nikita Khrushchev called for reforms in the late 50's and early 60's; they removed him. He had stayed in power, I believe it would have ended sooner. And if Gorbachev had stayed in power, Russia would not have had as many problems in the transition. Russia will be a democracy but on their terms.
Hitler was indeed a fascist, but even if you take into account all people killed during the World War 2 (40 million), it's far less than the Sovet-Union, China managed to kill (100 million).
Of course socialism is longer around to spread it's unholy message, but in absolute numbers it's the most criminal political system ever existed. If you value human life...

Social-democracy is indeed a good thing, it helped workers last centory. But at the same time, too many social services lead to a stagnating economy, as you can see in Sweden or Holland.

Anyway, socialism has imprissoned my family, so I've personally experienced the 'blessings'. :) And unlike Germany after WW2, nobody in Russia said sorry for all suffering they caused in Eastern-Europe. Putin is even glorifying the past again.

Many people think that socialism could be reformed, become more democratic. My point is that any socialist system will collapse, once it becomes more democratic. Like any dictatorship will collapse, when you remove threat and terror. Examples are Hungary in 1956, Czechoslovakia in 1968, or Gorbachev's era.

[Arie]

And if it wasn't a joke? Maybe she will explain?

It's good to argue. Make up sex can be wonderful.:thumb:
They say make up sex is indeed the best sex possible... but when being a few thousand kilometres apart... :D

[Nu Pogodi]

They say make up sex is indeed the best sex possible... but when being a few thousand kilometres apart... :D

Memorable Quotes from the movie The War of the Roses:

Barbara Rose: Have you ever made angry love?
Gavin: Is there any other way?
:drum:

Get the time off work and go.
:car:

[Arie]

Poor Firedancer is ill... :(

[firedancer]

Are you a fan of Niccolo Machiavelli?
yes i am, is that bad?

[firedancer]

And if it wasn't a joke? Maybe she will explain?

It's good to argue. Make up sex can be wonderful.:thumb:
it is not a joke, it is just hard to explain, and i believe nobody would understand me. i'll just save my opinion for myself..

[Arie]

You're right, it's not really a politicial forum over here...

[firedancer]

yep, that's true..

[Nu Pogodi]

yes i am, is that bad?

I am not sure if it is bad but I think respect can be achieved without fear.

[Nu Pogodi]

it is not a joke, it is just hard to explain, and i believe nobody would understand me. i'll just save my opinion for myself..

Anything to do with the "Thieves World'?

[Nu Pogodi]

You're right, it's not really a politicial forum over here...

Politics can be interesting and sometimes it helps to understand someone when you learn what they have been through.

[Arie]

Politics can be interesting and sometimes it helps to understand someone when you learn what they have been through.
Indeed, and Firedancer has a fascinating character. But our dear butterfly has decided to fly away :)

But in a nice spring-sun, we shouldn't talk too seriously here.